Talk:Southsiders (album)

Move?

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Upon further review, I'm going to close this discussion as no consensus, the level of support on either side doesn't approach a clear consensus one way or the other. As such I'll be moving the article back to its previous title as it was moved boldy without discussion. This may be worth revisiting in a couple of months.--Cúchullain ^t/c 20:06, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

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• revert undiscussed move per BRD – Dohn joe (talk) 02:58, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose. Southsiders are people who live on the south side of something, a more important meaning than a routine pop music album. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 05:32, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose - obviously, the latest album being in good faith inserted into an undisambiguated slot does not make it primary topic. Interesting to note however the difference in approach of the article creator of Vancouver Southsiders (who included natural disambiguation in the title though mostly they are known just as Southsiders), and the creator of album article (all credit to him/her) who didn't allow for the other uses on en.wp, and in books. It seems that this is a recurrent problem which stems from the wording at the project MOS page which makes little reference to the existence of a universe outside songs/albums, so consequently we could have Hurricane (album) created as plain Hurricane because guidance doesn't say to consider non-song/album topics. And this is a new album, which indicates that new song and album titles will be constantly being created with titles which have meanings in the real world where primary song or primary album isn't the only consideration. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:31, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
• @Anthony Appleyard, I understand WP:NOTBURO and everything, but what's the point of having a category "Requests to revert undiscussed moves", if we don't revert undiscussed page moves when requested...? Dohn joe (talk) 13:54, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
• Support. "Southsiders" is so unlikely as a search term for an existing WP article, that Southsiders didn't even exist until two months ago, and had no content until the article on this album was written. The Vancouver club supporters apparently didn't think that plain "Southsiders" was worth creating as a redirect to that article. Neither did Southsider exist until In ictu created it this week. Note that there are no articles titled "Southsider" on WP, and no significant treatment within any articles. If someone creates one some day, let's revisit. Until then, let's point our readers to an article with actual content when they search for a term, shall we? :) Dohn joe (talk) 17:34, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Again, WP:PRIMARYTOPIC states:

A topic is primary for a term, with respect to usage, if it is highly likely—much more likely than any other topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term.
A topic is primary for a term, with respect to long-term significance, if it has substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic associated with that term.

Firstly does this album pass either of these tests in Google Books?

Secondly Dohn Joe, how many uses in Wikipedia articles (pre-existing this new album) were there already of the plain term "Southsiders", capitalised? In ictu oculi (talk) 00:09, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Ooh, fun game! Let's see.... plain "Southsiders", capitalized.... I count 8 (2 instances where they leave out "Vancouver" from "Vancouver Southsiders"; 3 for denizens of Chicago; 1 for denizens of Dublin; 1 each for separate bands called "The Southsiders"; one for denizens of southern Virginia). There are an additional 18 where "Southsider(s)" is used, not plain, but in a phrase (14 for "Vancouver Southsiders"; 2 for Kentucky's "Southsider Magazine"; 2 for Glasgow's "Local News for Southsiders"). Note that just one instance of all the above 26 is wikilinked as Southsiders. Meanwhile, the hip-hop album already is linked to in 32 articles. So to answer your first question, yes, 32 is greater than 8 (or even 26) - the hip-hop album is already more likely than the other topics combined to appear in WP article text. Sounds like a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC to me.... Dohn joe (talk) 01:27, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

So in other words the encyclopedia had 26 plural in text references to Southsiders, of which none relate to the album. The hip hop album now has 4, since we don't count adding 1 to a template as 22. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:53, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Yes, the word was mentioned in passing 8 times on its own, 18 as part of a phrase. Once has it ever been wikilinked. Last I checked, being mentioned in passing does not make for "a topic covered by Wikipedia." Otherwise, every noun, adjective, or adverb that appears in any article text would count against WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. That makes no sense. Dohn joe (talk) 15:40, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

• Support per Dohn joe, this is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and of course no one had any idea to create an article or redirect to any of the other uses until this article was created. This is the only topic of Southsiders that has an article dedicated to it, a hat note can direct to the Vancouver club. Oh and Anthony Appleyard, this is not pop music, what an absurd statement. STATic message me! 18:28, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Of course not, because until this article was created the RH top search box would show search results for the 55 articles with Southsider in them. Now that a barely notable new album release has been inserted into the base term that jams up top RH search so the 55 articles mentioning Southsider don't come up and any search went straight to the album. If this was a manga or anything similar created in the base term the same problem would exist. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:13, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose per IIO -- 65.94.171.126 (talk) 05:13, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified

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Requested move 8 October 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. —usernamekiran (talk) sign the (guestbook) 19:57, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

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Southsiders → Southsiders (album) – Last discussed in 2014. The album by Atmosphere does not appear to be overly notable, and should not be the primary topic. Proposing that Southsiders become a redirect to the dabpage at Southsider. 162 etc. (talk) 02:52, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

• Weak support the album has 248 views but South Side, Chicago (of which natives are "Southsiders") gets 13,463, Southside, Dublin gets 269, Vancouver Southsiders gets 107 and The Southsiders gets 9[[1]]. Crouch, Swale (talk) 07:54, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.