Talk:Sonata Arctica

Melodic Metal

The reason I changed it to Melodic metal. While I can agree with anonymous editor that SA is not true Power metal, what it definately is NOT, is Speed Metal. As such I changed the genre "Melodic Speed Metal" into the more general "Melodic Metal". This is the genre Tony himself has claimed the band to be, in several interviews. Also, in the international Sonata fanclub it seems to be the most commonly accepted genre denomination for SA. -- Sneltrekker 22:57, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm changing the genre to Symphonic power metal now. that's the genre that other wikipedia articles list SA in and it seems exactly the right genre to me. --Nin 20:20, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I can't really see much of a symphonic aspect in the music, melodic maybe. Besides, Symphonic power metal just links to the symphonic metal article, which really doesn't fit with them at all. Surely melodic power metal or just power metal are better definitions than symphonic, even if they're not 100% accurate?

Offski 23:55, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

No objection to power metal here. GammaShade 16:16, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

While we're here, I changed it to plain ol' power metal. I think "melodic power metal" is redundant, since power metal itself is usually melodic anyway. I only have Ecliptica, but they seem more power than symphonic; should symphonic metal be added to the infobox? Dayn 10:06, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Changing it to power metal is fair enough but symphonic metal doesn't really seem suitable, even symphonic power metal. Sonata play much more straightforward power metal using only guitar, keyboard, bass and drums. There aren't any orchestrations or orchestral instruments used and the riffs and solos, with the exception of a couple of songs, are not particularly classical-influenced. Feel free to discuss this though because I see it isn't clear-cut. Offski 00:59, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm fine with that. Usually genre discussions try to fit the band into their unique niche, if they're slightly different than the mould. I.e., Sonata Arctica's sound is power metal; their unique power metal sound is Sonata Arctica. If you get my meaning. --Dayn 02:58, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Power metal, melodic metal, yes. Symphonic metal, not realy but I see where you're coming from. Progressive metal, what? No! Offski 20:02, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, definitely not progressive. If Sonata Arctica got progressive, than nearly all power metal bands should be. --Dayn 02:01, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I doubt you will find many power metal bands with their chops.--E tac 03:39, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

That's not really conducive to much... but Stratovarius, Twilightning, DragonForce, et al. Being able to play very well seems to be a given for most metal. --Dane ^~nya 07:43, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Well mosst power metal bands don't show a lot of complexity besides guitar solos, Sonata Arctica are top notch at every instruent like Dream Theater.--E tac 06:46, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Except Stratovarius, Twilightning, DragonForce... dunno about many other power metal bands. --Dane ^~nya 08:15, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Listen to the bass and drums of them and Dream Theater. Sonata use a straightforward fast double bass pedal beat and a simple chord progression style bassline while Dream Theater use bass and drums in the the riffs and melody as much as they use the guitar and keyboard.

As for time signatures, Sonata use 4/4 or 3/4 almost exclusively in virtually all of their songs, look at a Dream Theater tab and you see 9/8s and 5/4s all over the place with a few 7/4s here and a 17/16 there.

Most of Sonata's songs follow a very obvious pattern, e.g. Intro > Verse > Chorus > Verse > Chorus > Solo(s) > Chorus, or something similar. Progressive songs are generally all over the place

During the verse and/or chorus ove most of their songs, Sonata simply use guitar and keyboards as rhythm instruments, whereas Dream Theater have at least one riff going on all the time.

Some of their songs I would consider progressive power metal like Power of One, The Boy..., White Pearl Black Oceans, but apart from those few there is not enough prog in the songs to consider them a progressive metal band, most of their songs have little to no progressive elements. However, Reckoning Night was noticeably more prog than the rest of the albums, and it seems Unia will be even more so. If this is the case then perhaps progressive metal could be mentioned at some point, perhaps in regard to "later works" or something. Offski 12:58, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I changed it back to Melodic Metal, since the band is anything BUT power metal, because it has no song that's about dragons or magic or any powerful theme. It IS a melodic metal band, and Tony has already said that himself...so stop changing it back to Power Metal or even Symphonic metal...it's melodic only, and maybe a bit Progressive nowadays. Remember, no Power Metal band would ever write a song called "Shy" or record one called "Two Minds One Soul"...IT'S NOT POWER!!! It's Melodic...\m/ FuraKko 22:16, 26 January 2008

So you're saying genre is influenced entirely by lyrics? And you're also saying that no power metal band ever recorded a ballad? Offski (talk) 03:28, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Not entirely, but the lyrics DO influence...a black metal music is called black metal for Satanic and Dark aspects of lyrics...besides that, is sounds like Death metal...the only thing about Sonata Arctica that is power, is the drumming on some songs like Wolf & Raven, Blank File and some others...the melodic characteristics are the lyrics, the keybords and some riffs(there are some power riffs on some songs too)...I'll put the Melodic Metal on the box, but on the text I'll change do Metal Band from Finland...so no more useless discussion about Genre, ok? FuraKko 18:18, 29 January 2008

SA's drums, bass, rhythm guitar (and most lead) and especially the keyboards are all prime examples of how power metal typically sounds. The vocals are also very much in the power metal vein, especially on the earlier albums (I wouldn't consider Unia power metal vocal performance but like I say below, that's less than 1/5th of their work). The lyrics, while not for the most part within the cliched power metal fantasy themes, are covered on the power metal page which states "personal struggles and emotions" as a common lyrical theme in the genre. Also, melodic metal is not really a defined genre, hence there being no page for it, and is instead just a general all-inclusive term of metal that is melodic, which includes power metal. While I do agree that Sonata's music is metal and it is melodic, this is a very vague description which could be used for anyone from Dream Theater to Nightwish to Týr to Kamelot. Even bands like Children of Bodom and Kalmah are melodic to a certain extent. Offski (talk) 01:25, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I do agree with the changing to melodic metal and i want everyone to realize that this is how it should be. They were deff. power metal in the earlier days, but there laster albums like Unia did not have power metal characteristics. It still wasn't so much progressive because most of the songs were in the normal 4/4 or sometimes 3/4 time signatures; Unlike progressive metal bands such as Dream Theater who will incorporate odd time signatures such as 11/16, 5/8, etc..I can see the melodic metal style, although i don't understand why there is no page on wiki for it, and there is only a melodic DEATH metal page. I hope someone could create one because it is most deffidently the genre that best fits Sonata Arctica's work. (jimmyv811) — Preceding undated comment added 08:48, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

There's no page for melodic metal because it's not really a proper genre, it's just a vague description of a style. Power metal is a type of melodic metal, as is symphonic metal and most progressive metal. Power metal is still the best way to describe the band. Having done four power metal albums then one heavy/power/progressivish album means that power metal still describes the majority of their sound, even if the latest album is broadening their horizon somewhat. Offski (talk) 18:22, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Okay, good point Offski. I understand where you are coming from. jimmyv811 3:19 P.M., January 27, 2008 (ET)

Their albums contain some element from symp metal, then I add symp power metal to the infobox.--213.43.12.217 (talk) 19:49, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Genre Discussion, Post-Unia

A conversation's been going on over at the Unia talk page about how the new tracks should be classified, genre-wise. The album on the whole is distinctively more progressive than Sonata's previous works, and I felt that bringing the conversation here could get some more opinions on the matter. Perhaps it could be a powerful enough shift to change Sonata's genre? Anyway, I realize the album has only been released recently, but I and 76.102.117.133, and hopefully others, would appreciate opinions regarding genre as they come in. Thanks very much! GammaShade 03:43, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Damn, thought I'd already responded to this, ah well. I think that while Unia has gone more progressive, it still isn't really full-on prog. The time signatures and song structures and everything are still fairly basic when compared to a band like Dream Theater. The album's style could perhaps be mentioned in the article but I feel it doesn't really make them a progressive band. I certainly feel that symphonic metal is still unsuitable, if anything they're less so than before. Offski 04:01, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I think it certinally is a progressive album, It is not as progressive as Dream theater, but has it to be like that to become progressive? I think it doesn't. It is like Kamelot becomming more progressive. Essiw (talk) 19:34, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Of course it is a "proper genre". Try google or youtube it. Helloween were and always will be "speed metal" in their early days and "melodic / speed metal" on their later stuff. They even list themselves as this on their "official" website. When Sonata Arctica came out they also called themselves as speed metal and look website and you'll also see they give reference to being "melodic".

Power metal was groups like Judas Priest ('Ram it Down' album and onwards - 'Painkiller' being the ultimate) and Pantera (power metal album). Speed metal was Joe stump - Speed metal messiah or groups such as Helloween. In the 80's there was a few years when many bands got marketed as being speed metal as often it also meant any band that played fast. Many of these were thrash metal or even power metal bands. Megadeth and Anthrax featured as speed metal but both are and still are "thrash metal". Most people always saw Helloween as the core to speed metal as a genre. Judas Priest and Manowar were power metal.

power metal was about "Power!!" and speed metal was about "speed!". How hard is it?. Since when did groups that play harmonic and melodic metal at a fast speed ever a representation of being "Power"??!! Metalosaurus (talk) 17:58, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

This just kind of made me facepalm. I don't care if you think that the "Power!!" idea is the definition of power metal...it's not. At least not in that sense. Judas Priest is full on heavy metal and Pantera has NEVER made a power metal album. Power metal is about the melodies, no matter how you look at it. Try comparing a band like DragonForce or Blind Guardian to Pantera...c'mon. And DragonForce is full on power metal. Maybe the concept of "power" and "overwhelming melodies" seem to contradict each other, but that is the way it works.

All this considered, I think that power metal is a very fitting genre for Sonata Arctica in general. "Melodic metal" and power metal are practically the same thing, the way I see it. I've never seen a power metal band use anything but heavy, soaring melodies. Zadion (talk) 12:41, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Over the Hills and Far Away Cover

Removed this 'cover' song. Here is the explanation, copy-pasted from the FAQ on www.sonataarctica.info:

Did SA really cover Over The Hills And Far Away?

No, KaZaA lies! Same goes for nearly all other songs which aren't mentioned at the official site but nevertheless can be found at one of the filesharing programs. That song that is named "Sonata Arctica - Over The Hills And Far Away" is a cover-version played by Thyrfing (Tony did some backing vocals for Nightwish's Over The Hills And Far Away - cover though). -- Sneltrekker 20:33, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Lyrics

Should this page have links to the various lyrics of all the songs? Or maybe put the links to the lyrics on the album pages? If this is accepted as a good idea I will go ahead and do it, just don't want to ruin any page ;)
The PA 19:56, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Don't put the full lyrics on Wikipadia, as that would involve violating copyrights. You can however put a link up at this article, that links to all the lyrics. -- SoothingR^(pour) 07:43, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

• • Sounds good The PA 19:46, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

The End of This Chapter

I updated the dates for the 2005/06 releases to the best of my knowledge, but couldn't find the release date for The End of This Chapter. "Late August" still works, but if anyone knows the exact date, it'd be much appreciated. GammaShade 23:43, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Reverted

I've reverted these edits. Jens Johansson played solos on Winterheart's but he was a guest musician, not a band member. The genre is somewhat contendable and should probably be discussed here before being changed. Offski 14:30, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Kotipelto

Timo Kotipelto – Sings in "False News Travel Fast" Can this be verified? There's no mention of it in the album's liner notes. Radagast1983 11:34, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Well it certainly isn't Tony. Timo has a very distinctive voice and it does sound a lot like him, and Sonata and Stratovarius are qutie close, with touring and together and Jens playing on Winterheart's Guild. A lot of other websites seem to agree as well, although I admit that none of this is definitive proof. Offski 16:36, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I believe I recall reading this on Sonata's official forums, though I wouldn't be able to find the topic offhand: Tony is singing throughout the song, but the final line ("News travel fast!") is Timo. Of course, if my memory doesn't fail me and the only source is the forums, that's not exactly verifiable. GammaShade 20:13, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Game

I just want to pinpoint that they're cooperating with "Zelian Games" and "Inferi Art" to create a game called "Winterhearts Guild". Link to the original page: http://www.winterheartsguild.com/wg/index.htm Is this worth bringing up in the article? I just want your opinions if this is "worthy" or not. mothos 12:55, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Second last paragraph in the article. It links to Winterheart's Guild (computer game). --Dayn 12:44, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

"Big Pooh"

Please stop adding this in, as rap vocals. The official site makes no mention of this, and there are absolutely no online references stating as such. --Dayn 03:23, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Cover songs!

Does anyone want to help me find citations and sources for all these cover songs? For one, I can attest to Helloween's "I Want Out", as it's undoubtedly SA playing, and I can verify Stratovarius' "Black Diamond", as I own the VHS/DVD in question. Does anyone wanna help verify them? --Dane ^~nya 08:25, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Well I sourced the recorded ones... Looks a bit messy, but I'm not sure what to do. I don't know how to go about verifying the songs played live. --Dane ^~nya 08:51, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Search YouTube? I've seen them play a bit of "I was Made For Loving You" on one video, there could be more out there. I might have a go later. Offski 09:56, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I got a package of bootleg Sonata albums recorded from their concerts the other day and I'm also an avid Sonata video hunter, and I can safely verify that all of these (With the exception of Excuse Me While I Kill Myself, One and No More Tears) have at some point been covered. If only very brief snippets in mid-song for some of them. -Anon. 13:30, 15 May 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.34.243.220 (talk)

Fansite list needs trimming

I believe the fansite list needs trimming, it's becoming into more of a link repository. How shall we determine which fansites are notable enough to warrant inclusion? --Dane ^~nya 08:53, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't know Wikipedia's policy on this but I think that fansites aren't really notable at all. Certainly not the foreign languages ones. I would suggest keeping no more than the English and Finnish ones, and probably not all of them. Offski 19:12, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Aha, hereherehere... Wikipedia talk:External links#Links normally to be avoided, this might help. We could add a directory list to DMOZ, which lists fansites; or we can try and decide which ones are notable; most likely Finnish and English, being an English encyclopaedia, and a Finnish subject. --Dane ^~nya 00:51, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Trimmedski, all but the English/semi-English sites (no Finnish ones, surprisingly). I'd say go further and keep no more than one, possibly none unless one of them is an official one. Offski 09:53, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I checked dmoz.com (I think it was) an open directory thing, but there's hardly any mention of any fansites. Well certainly not the first one, seems the page has been hacked... The last one is a DreamThieves thing... The three that are left are the only ones that might be of any value. The .nl site seems to have only what's on the official site... The .it site is pretty much the same, and so is the DreamThieves thing. Perhaps just remove all three, or leave them? I'll try and pretty-up the cover songs part so it's less messy. --Dane ^~nya 10:08, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Having had a look at the sites, I am going to get rid of them. The official site is kept up to date and everything is on there that can be found on the fansites. If anyone objects, feel free to replace or revert or whatever but I don't think encyclopedic articles are supposed to have any links to unofficial fansites. Offski 22:17, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:SonataArctica Forthesakeofrevenge.jpg

Image:SonataArctica Forthesakeofrevenge.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Fair use rationale for Image:Sonataarctica unia cover.jpg

Image:Sonataarctica unia cover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 22:16, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Dana?

Is she a fictional creation of the band? 86.136.106.49 13:23, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

From the official website:

"Who is Dana?

Dana is Mary-Lou, Mary-Lou is Tallulah and Tallulah is Victoria. Dana is nobody or could be everybody, it's just a figure out of Tony's imagination! The name "Dana" was inspired by a character of the X-File movies, but has nothing to do with her."

Offski 16:37, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Name Meaning

There isn't any part about the meaning of "Sonata Arctica", and I can't find a place where it stands. Someone who knows it should add it. Sound Arctic? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.83.226.84 (talk) 06:10, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

I read about that somewhere that "Sonata" refers to a classical piece of music that is sung I believe and "Arctica" for their constant "chilling" atmosphere and artwork. Combine the two Sonata (to sound) it would be: "to sound arctic" or an Artic piece of music. Yet I forget what I saw for the second portion of it's meaning which is Arctica. --CircafuciX (talk) 06:33, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

'Sonata' is for the classical influence on their music and 'arctica' is because they're from Finland. 2.104.191.194 (talk) 01:25, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Picture on Unia cover?

"Interestingly, the cover for "Unia" features a barely perceptible image of a person's hair and eyes looking out through a crack in the background in the lower right-hand corner. It is likely an allusion to the person in the song "Caleb" on "Unia"."

... I have the cover in front of me and cannot for the life of me see any sort of face on it. Is there a source for this entry? If not, please have it deleted. --NorkNork ^Questions? _fnord? 21:17, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I have a pretty huge scan of the album's cover and can just BARELY see what I reckon is what is mentioned. It's a rather pale face with a single black eye. It's quite creepy. If someone wants proof then I can always e-mail them the file with the face circled. It's VERY difficult to see though, so I hope you have good eyesight, XD 92.11.105.199 (talk) 22:05, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this has any significance in an article but if someone within the media could ask the band during an interview, then we could instantly find out if this is just an "ink blot test" or indeed what you say. FireCrystal (talk) 23:46, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

SA finally has a logo!

SA needed a logo and now we finally have one! I was looking for one myself and it seems someone has found one. Nice job. --CircafuciX (talk) 22:27, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Untitled (2009) Album

I'm wondering where this information came from, as it's not on Sonata's official site, and searching 'Sonata Arctica 2009 Album' on Google comes up with nothing. If someone has just added that to the list because they assume that Sonata will record another album in 2009, then it needs removing, as that's a daft assumption to make. After all, Sonata are currently touring with Nightwish, and although Nightwish has a new album in the works, a realistic release date wouldn't be until early 2010. Unless confirmation can be provided from an official source, this enigmatic album needs removing. 92.12.62.21 (talk) 14:32, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

http://www.nuclearblast.de/showDynamicPage.php?ident=newsdetail&nid=2925 71.201.149.83 (talk) 01:53, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

A bit of a pointless response due to the fact that my initial comment was made way before their upcoming album was announced, =/ 92.11.238.109 (talk) 16:33, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Kotipelto in False News

Perhaps it would be a good idea to be slightly more specific as to exactly how much of False News Travels Fast Kotipelto provides vocals for. Generally when you say someone provided vocals for a song it's understood that they sung quite a bit of it, whereas Kotipelto sings only the final three words of the aforementioned song. 92.11.238.109 (talk) 16:37, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Themes / Recurring Elements

Under the section for The Days of Grays in the article, it says that "The Last Amazing Grays" is the wolf song of the album, however the only other occurrence the word "wolf" is for "Wolf & Raven" in the list of singles at the bottom. Shouldn't there at least be a sentence somewhere that mentions the recurring theme of the wolves? If so, it would seem logical to also include something about continuous stories like Caleb saga. TeskoVirgo (talk) 21:41, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Influences

it says that Queen is their biggest influence but I thought Stratovarious was their biggest influence because thats what they mentioned everywhere else like on their website —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.141.247.228 (talk) 21:11, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

PeaceMaker

Why is the demo title "PeaceMaker" a link to a wiki page about a 2007 PC game? The two are related in no possible way. --84.248.129.95 (talk) 18:19, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

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