Talk:Skidel revolt

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First pass

I am done for now, I think all the claims in the article are now properly attributed. There's scope for expansion, based on the sources I've seen, but the first thing is always to weed out errors/POV/etc. before we add more stuff. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:19, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

Much better! Some feedback/questions -

1. We need a balancing counter-source to Wierzbicki. He's not as polemic as some others, however he does represent a certain school of historians - a second or third source(s) from a competing school would round things out.
2. I think this area being integrated into Poland as a result of aggression in Polish–Soviet War in 1921 as well as the ethnic makeup (majority minority or something similar - Poles were less than 50%, double-digit Jewish and Belorussian populations as well as others) - is relevant for the background (and have seen this referred to in literature regarding 1939-41 in Eastern Poland).
3. What's the scope we're shooting for here? Just Skidel? The county of Grodno? Wider?Icewhiz (talk) 13:47, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

1. Of course, more sources are better. I'll see what I can find.
2. Background section needs expanding. The best data on ethnicity/etc. would come from Polish census of 1931. Not sure how relevant PSW is here, considering the Jews didn't really have any serious interest in it, at least in so far as having made any serious effort to gain statehood. Belarusians had a bit more, but they (Belarusian People's Republic) generally fought against Russians (Soviets...), not Poles See ex. Slutsk Defence Action. They were citizens of Poland and Russia before that. It's more relevant to say that they were opressed ethnic minorities (opressed on both sides of the border, through I guess the Polish side is more relevant in this context).
3. Whatever the sources discuss. It is a bit confusing, but I think despite being named after a city, it refers to the wider province. Through I'll be more sure once I review the sources. Currently the top level article for this is Soviet invasion of Poland, and pl wiki doesn't have anything more relevant. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:31, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

PSW (and ethnic makeup) is relevant as background as to why this area was less integrated into Poland - e.g. around Warsaw or Lodz this did not happen. I think the sources discuss both Skidel - and the wider events (definitely in Grodno county) - I think it is really up to our discretion (more of a question of whether there should be a separate Skidel-specific entry as well as a wider entry, or whether this entry (which could be split in the future) would cover a wider area. Gross does discuss the wider area in [1] Revolution from Abroad. The Soviet Conquest of Poland's Western Ukraine and Western Belorussia..Icewhiz (talk) 06:34, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

Agreed. Btw, since you linked Gross' book, in regards to issues we discussed here and elsewhere, check page 32 for his comments on Jewish attitude towards Soviets/communists. I hope that Gross, who is not a nationalist/anti-semitic Polish-POV historian (to say the least), can be considered reliable when it comes to noting that the Zydokomuna is not a pure fiction. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:20, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Most myths or fallacies have a grain of truth - in this case per Gross (and others!) that there were "proportionately more communist sympathizers among Jews .... though in absolute numbers they were not many". The problems with POVish sources is when all or most communists are cast as Jewish (or other non-Polish) or most Jews are cast as communists. Note that Gross also mentions an influx of communists from Western Poland - who fled east (after being freed from Jail during the German invasion) - who were also a pro-Soviet factor.Icewhiz (talk) 10:14, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Merge from User:Piotrus/Massacre of Brzostowica Mała

As MoMB article was deleted, and as some editors suggested a partial merge here may be justified, the contents of that article are available at User:Piotrus/Massacre of Brzostowica Mała for anyone interested in doing said merge. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:49, 18 May 2018 (UTC)