Talk:Sergey Sirotkin

Requested move 18 April 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page at this time, although this appears to be a case in which it will be worth revisiting the issue in the future. Dekimasuよ! 18:32, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

---

• Sergey Sirotkin (racing driver) → Sergey Sirotkin
• Sergey Sirotkin → Sergey Sirotkin (disambiguation)

– Like in case with Talk:Alexander Rossi, Formula One driver has significantly more coverage in sources and has much more page views than politician. Even in Russian-language sources the politician didn't receive such attention as Formula One driver. Corvus tristis (talk) 05:00, 18 April 2018 (UTC)--Relisting. Dekimasuよ! 05:03, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose. This is essentially a two-way DAB situation, and this young racing driver is certainly one to watch and I can understand the press getting excited, particularly in Russia. But he hasn't won all that much yet to be considered P T over a serving member of the Russian parliament, and may not. So leave it as a twoDAB situation for now. Andrewa (talk) 05:35, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

The membership of the Russian parliament (he was only a member of the 7th State Duma, he isn't a serving member now), doesn't make a politician quite notable automatically. The State Duma includes 450 members, some of them only imitates political activity, and Sirotkin is just the case. He was only co-author of the 17 little editions of the state laws. While Formula One drivers (even the drivers who have only entered Grand Prix without actual start) will have some notability many years later. Corvus tristis (talk) 07:28, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

I may have been wrong about serving member. It doesn't change the basic argument. Past membership of the parliament of the largest country in the world by land area isn't as newsworthy as being an up-and-coming racing driver and as far as I can see the only Russian currently in F1. So of course he's newsworthy! Especially in Russia. And he may one day be a national hero. Or forgotten. Wait and see. Andrewa (talk) 17:05, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

But he wasn't newsworthy even when he was an active member of the parliament. He haven't wrote any state laws or made anything significant. The thing is, that historically parliament in Russia since its inception in Russian Empire, in Soviet Russia, and in current Russia is only a simulation of democracy, which has nothing to do with an actual separation of powers. So most of the parliament members (State Duma (Russian Empire), Supreme Soviet of Russia) haven't passed the test of time and became forgotten. While driver who reach a Formula One is already made his name known internationally, not only in Russia. And his name will remain in the hundreds of the sources. Meanwhile politician will remain in oblivion, in which he was even during his most notable part of the career. Corvus tristis (talk) 18:16, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Not noteworthy? In that case nominate at AfD, and then the RM will pose no problem. Good luck, and meantime, bear WP:BALL in mind. Andrewa (talk) 20:55, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

He passes WP:POLITICIAN, only by fact that he was member of Duma. But does this fact cancel that he clearly not a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC? No, it doesn't. If you do simple google search, you will find hundred thousands of links to the racing driver and just 71 to the politician. Most of the links to the politician will be a reprint of the WP article. Corvus tristis (talk) 03:31, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Agree that the politician is not a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Irrelevant. The current setup assumes there is no primary topic. And of course he passes notability! Does noteworthy just mean a personal opinion? Andrewa (talk) 19:04, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

If he is noteworthy, then why he didn't get any coverage in the reliable sources? The only source in the article leads to the LDPR main page, which contains nothing about politician. And of course, Formula One driver is a primary topic, see also Alexander Rossi, Mark Webber, etc. I get that you don't like the whole concept of the primary topic. But is a current guideline which we should follow. Corvus tristis (talk) 04:44, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose. classic TWODABS. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:39, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

It is not a WP:2DABPRIMARY case, because in the long-term the politician wouldn't receive more notability than he has now, as he isn't an active member of the State Duma. Corvus tristis (talk)

The relevance of that single-editor essay is at least questionable, as is its logic. Andrewa (talk) 17:08, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

• Strong Support, overwhelming primary topic. The racing driver gets 400 times as many views as the politician. —Xezbeth (talk) 06:48, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

See User:Andrewa/The Problem With Page Views#Examples noting particularly the Three Girls case, and the rest of the essay is probably worth a read too. It's not that simple. Not by a log shot. Andrewa (talk) 16:52, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Fifty thousand views in 90 days versus one hundred and twenty. None of the examples in your essay are remotely similar to this. Completely ignoring page views would be insane. —Xezbeth (talk) 17:47, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

If this RM fails it will be as good an example as Three Girls which is IMO comparable, but if we take your assessment yes, it will be the best yet. Nobody is suggesting Completely ignoring page views. They are an indication, but on examination, in this case a poor one. Certainly not the show-stopper you suggest, which is the point of my essay. Andrewa (talk) 20:55, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

• Support. Sirotkin the racing driver is clearly the primary topic here. The politician barely scrapes notability, and has a fraction of the coverage, and as Corvus tristis states, hardly seems to be important even in Russia. QueenCake (talk) 16:20, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose. It's fine as it is, this is not about page views but about how minimise confusion, keep Sergey Sirotkin as a disambiguation with the two people linking of it, that is the least confusing solution.SSSB (talk) 19:04, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

How on earth it is the least confusing solution if there is always need to edit different articles because the driver wasn't disambiguated by an editor and the link led to the DAB but not the driver's article? Corvus tristis (talk) 19:30, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 1 February 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved per request. Calling it after two weeks with no opposition. Favonian (talk) 16:35, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

---

Sergey Sirotkin (racing driver) → Sergey Sirotkin – The racing driver is an overwhelming primary topic in views over the politician (whose daily average is a 0 over the year) [1], even three years since his Formula One season (and exit), and part-time appearances in some racing series. A hatnote is more than enough to mention the politician, and the disambiguation would be unneeded if this move goes through. Jovanmilic97 (talk) 18:19, 1 February 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Favonian (talk) 18:26, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

• Support per nomination. The 70-year-old Sergey Sirotkin (politician) has been retired for six years and his stub in Russian Wikipedia indicates no significant or newsworthy contribution to history, other than for the fact that his service as a member of Duma rates a Wikipedia entry. On the other hand, views for the 27-year-old racing driver do appear to completely submerge the politician. In another 20 to 30 years, with the aid of historical hindsight, the matter can be revisited. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 22:30, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.