Talk:Saul Tigh

Saul Tigh vs Colonel Saul Tigh

I seriously doubt someone's going to create articles about extremely minor characters.--Kross^Talk 06:56, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Incorrect procedure for move. You should use the page move function. Page histories are now thoroughly trashed. Yyyyyyyyyyy 23:43, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

A page move by a normal user wouldn't have worked. Only an admin would've been able to move it.--Kross^Talk 17:34, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Did either of you two think about using the proper procedure? (ie. WP:RM) 132.205.44.134 03:22, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

I have restored the edit history so that it all remains at Saul Tigh (since there seems to be no mass consensus for a move). If you wish to request a move to Colonel Saul Tigh, per 132.205.44.134 above please list at WP:RM. Never copy and paste the article between pages, doing so separates the page from it's edit history, which violates the GFDL (the license under which Wikipedia is published). _└ ^UkPaolo/_talk^┐ 07:50, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Remove stub?

Anyone else think the 'stub' notices can be removed? This article seems pretty well fleshed out.. Carnifex 00:24, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree and have removed the stubs... _└ ^UkPaolo/_talk^┐ 07:50, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Paul Tigh copyright

Could somebody expand on the copyright issues regarding the use of Paul Tigh? I'm just wondering why they could use all of the other character names/callsigns but not his. Koweja 19:37, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Spoiler?

The intro to Saul Tigh says he executes his wife for treason. That's a huge plot spoiler to anyone who hasn't seen it happen yet. BSG does huge twists and her committing treason is hinted at in the first series, but I think him executing her is a huge plot spoiler. I suggest before she died/passed away or just a plain "He was married to Ellen Tigh." 212.50.172.192 15:54, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

It needs to be revised, you're right. The best solution is probably to remove the line completely, and leave the events of his wife's death to the bio section, in the appropriate context. Same thing with the line about his role as XO, since that has changed over the course of the series as well... -- Fru1tbat 14:06, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

There hasn't been any action on this for a while. Since the marriage/position details are already mentioned in the bio within context, to avoid any spoilers (and also to maintain an out-of-universe perspective on the overall article), for now I'm taking them out of the lead section. --Fru1tbat 19:30, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

---Umm, wikipedia isn't supposed to be a safe haven from spoilers but a source of information. Please take this into account before reading it. July 2nd 08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.243.150.152 (talk) 01:27, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree. But there needs to be a spoiler template to warn people, which I'll add! ▫ Urbane Legend ^chinwag 10:58, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Er, actually, no I won't. I've just read WP:SPOILER and learned that Wikipedia doesn't use spoiler templates any more. Fairynuff. ▫ Urbane Legend ^chinwag 11:02, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Succession boxes

These need some cleanup. First of all, there's really no such thing as "Season 2.5" (let alone "2.9"!). It's a term specific to the U.S. DVD releases (and to a degree, the broadcast schedule, but the show's website doesn't distinguish between the two halves), and really doesn't belong here. Second, there was really no succession and re-succession involving the resistance. He was imprisoned, and yes, Tyrol was in charge for a little, but it was a temporary situation, and it isn't really worth the clutter of an extra box... Besides, it's a little confusing that way. He automatically took charge upon his return, and it wasn't a very long absence, so really, Tyrol never truly "succeeded" him, in my opinion. It's analogous to his temporary role as CO of Galactica... I'll wait a little before editing, because I'm not sure what the best solution is (though I'm tempted to get rid of everything but the XO box). Thoughts? -- Fru1tbat 23:22, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Follow-up: I just noticed that WP:WAF specifically prohibits in-universe succession boxes. On those grounds, I think we have no choice but to remove the boxes entirely... -- Fru1tbat 23:37, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

according to the WP:WAF concerns, it seems that although prohibited, fictional universes that are already fixed in stone could apply them without threat of future revision (like... LotR, Horatio Hornblower, SPACE:1999, etc). (It would also seem to be appropriate when talking Doctor Who about who is the Doctor... since that show is not temporally bound anyways, eras are based on whom regenerated into whom) 70.55.84.98 23:16, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Eyepatch Photo?

Should the photo in this article be one of the promo shots from Season Three that shows him with his eyepatch? That seems to be the most accurate way to represent the character. KyuzoGator 19:14, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

It could be seen as a spoiler, I suppose, though a pretty weak one. If the only grounds for changing it are "it's the character's current representation", then I'd oppose it. Since it's a work of fiction, the entire continuity should be treated as "current". Personally, I'd prefer it stay the way it is. --Fru1tbat 19:21, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

That's fair, but take a look at the Wiki article for Big Boss (a character from the Metal Gear video games). It shows him with his trademark eyepatch even though we don't learn how he got it until Metal Gear Sold 3. I think it's fair to say that the eyepatch is a huge part of the Tigh character now. KyuzoGator 20:40, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with the Metal Gear series (I played the original, but that was a long time ago), so I'm making the assumption that since you call it his "trademark" eyepatch, it was always a part of his character, whether or not the story behind it had been revealed. That already makes it different from the case here, where the mere presence of the patch implies a perspective from later in the series (though its presence doesn't inherently make known any specific details, which is why I called it a "weak" spoiler). While the eyepatch is definitely part of the character now, that's irrelevant to the spoiler issue (the "now" is what makes it a problem, actually). Starbuck's marriage to Anders, for example, is certainly important to her character, but still obviously a spoiler. Minutiae aside, what's important, I believe, is recognizing the need to avoid temporal perspective in fictional character articles. The eye patch may be important to his character now, but the article covers the character's entire continuity, which is why I'm uncomfortable with using a picture that shows the result of a major plot point as the main picture. --Fru1tbat 20:57, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Vigilante

I added Tigh to the fictional list of vigilantes because he, along with Tyrol, Anders and the other members of the circle were assasinating suspected collaberators after the Second Exodus. Although they were doing so under an excutive order from then President Tom Zarek, it has been implied that Zarek's order, and the actions of The Circle membership were infact criminal. Hense Tigh's categorization as a vigilante. Celtic Knight —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Celtic Knight (talk • contribs) 21:18, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

I think calling someone a "fictional vigilante" has broader implications -- it implies to me that vigilantism is a regular part of their character. For example, Tigh drinks excessively regularly enough (and while on duty) to call him a "drunk", whereas a character who gets drunk once or twice wouldn't be classified as such. I see "vigilante" in the same way. It was a minor enough arc that I don't think it properly categorizes him. --Fru1tbat 21:45, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I strongly agree that Tigh (or Tyrol, for that matter) can not be called a vigilante. For the larger part of the series, they are loyal officers -- in fact, they are still loyal officers using desperate measures during the New Caprica story arc as depicted in the webisodes. I suggest that unless a consensus is reached to the opposite (which I consider very unlikely, to say the least), Celtic Knight should (please) stop inserting this into the article. I will accordingly revert this as suspected vandalism and may report it on AN/I should you repeat this without proper consensus here. Kncyu38 01:01, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

It is not my intent to vandalise this article and Kncyu38 threatening to report my actions as vandislim is a little extreme, and I feel unwarrented. If I have broken some rule by doing this, it was unintentional and offer an apology to anyone offended by my actions. I'm not doing this to cause trouble or be a nuisance. I felt it was a legitimate term to apply to this fictional character. I've only tried twice inserting this the article before it was arbitrarily removed. That being said, I will wait for a consensus before I attempt this again, and will respect whatever the results of the consensus are. As for Fruitbat's comments, I'd counter with this one. Tigh normally does not murder anyone, and his killing of his wife was out of character and was done during an unusual situation. Yet, it is still considered murder and Tigh is classified as a murderer by Wikipedia. Tigh participated in illegally executing 13 suspects after the Exodus, which can be classified as vigilante behaviour. If he had done this only once or twice, as Fruitbat suggests, vigilante may not apply, but he did this 13 times and probably would have continued to do had Laura Roslin let the order remain in effect. JMO. Celtic Knight

Ok, please excuse my harsh words from above, I'm just weary of people re-inserting disputed stuff over and over, even if it happens in good faith and not as vandalism, as I now assume was the case here. Concerning the 13 executions: I think Fru1tbats point was that as this story arc was completed within 2 episodes (or was it?), it means that relative to his being a loyal soldier most of the time, his vigilante-like actions are only a fraction of this character's development. And it's really part of his larger ambiguous tendencies, given that he has taken part in the manipulation of the presidential election on behalf of Roslyn and without Adama's knowledge. But that doesn't make him a vigilante, precisely, only more of an ambiguous character in the series. Kncyu38 10:56, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

The Circle wasn't a vigilante group, it was a secret court authorized by president Tom Zarek. -- Gordon Ecker 04:13, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Incorrectly Labled as Humanoid Cylon?

I think this should be reverted back, or at the very least a notation should be added showing that he suspects that he is a cylon as of the season 3 finale but as of now it has not yet been confirmed that he is indeed a cylon. 12.17.36.1 13:13, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Supposedly Ron Moore has confirmed that all four of them are, indeed, Cylons. Of course, we will need some sort of link confirming this statement, and until then maybe the page should read "suspects" rather than definately saying he is, or isnt. I'll try to find a direct link to Moore's comments regarding this. Dexeron 16:17, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I think it should be changed back, so far the only reason he has to belive he is a cylon is that he heard a bob dylan song. bah.

Not supposedly. The link to the interview is on the Cylon (re-imagining) page and is right here: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07085/770732-352.stm -- Noneofyourbusiness 20:33, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

GAH! tis true, but I refuse to say it makes for good storytelling... I'm about tired of this series, I worry this new development has killed it for me... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.43.215.81 (talk) 00:53, 27 March 2007 (UTC).

I suggest giving it a chance, but to each their own. -- Noneofyourbusiness 02:17, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I still question whether we should list him as a cylon. Ron Moore may have stated he's a cylon in an interview, but Ron also has a history of misleading comments regarding character development in interviews and at conventions. He doesn't give plot points away in them. If I'm not mistaken he said the Chief would be killed this season and that has not happened. Gateman1997 15:17, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

There's a big difference between him telling us what to expect in an upcoming season and him confirming something he's already put into the show that people are questioning. You may as well tell us to put that Starbuck never died. 71.222.223.223 18:08, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Ron Moore does not have a history of misleading people, he has a history of making vague comments about upcoming and potential storylines and declining to give actual answers. For example, he and David Eick both declined to say anything definitive about Starbuck's fate except for Eick's statement that "The character of Starbuck will undergo a huge transformation". Ron Moore certainly has no history of outright lying, which is what he would be guilty of if it proved false that the four are Cylons. He flatly stated that they are, more than once. No weasel words, fudging, hedging, etc, just "Yes, they're Cylons" and "These are four of the final five Cylons". If he proved a liar there would henceforth be no reason to listen to a word he says. As for the Chief dying, I certainly don't remember that even being hinted or seeing anyone talk about it, so I'm fairly certain that Gateman is misremembering. Now if he said something about thinking of killing off the Chief, which I can't recall or haven't seen, that would be different from outright lying because it wouldn't be definitive. When speaking of the Cylon nature of Anders, Foster, Tigh, and the Chief, he has been definitive. See these interviews: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07085/770732-352.stm and http://www.eonline.com/gossip/kristin/blog/index.jsp?uuid=4d1c0568-6fee-467a-8d81-1d360d808ac3#comments I know this has been very long, but I'm being very precise in order to cover all aspects of the matter and end the discussion. -- Noneofyourbusiness 16:10, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

It's certainly worth pointing out that he's a very different Cylon to the other seven models - especially as the other seven are forbidden from talking about them. The Final Five are very ambiguous and they are certainly not recognised by the others. What makes them so different? We can only guess and we have to wait until the fourth season to find out more. (Mumbles curses at long wait.) I do think that some mention should be made to the fact that the Final Five are very different from the others. Darkmind1970 13:44, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Note that stating his race right at the top of his page is a huge spoiler. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.175.199.144 (talk) 13:24, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

I agree with that notion. It is one of those unique situations where revealing a character's race can be a spoiler, so the fact that the box that says he's a Cylon is above "the fold" spoiled me pretty bad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.46.59.223 (talk) 22:54, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I also agree, unless anyone disagrees in the next few days I propose that we move the race below the fold. Dark567 (talk) 06:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't get it...

How the frack can he be a Cylon if he participated (as a teenager!) in the First Cylon War, when the toasters were only experimenting with half-human hybrids (according to the Razor flashbacks). This is a HUGE problem in the storyline. Does anyone have an explanation we can include, or did they just make him a Cylon because he's the last person you'd expect (uncharacteristically "cheap", in that case)? --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 21:28, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

The things about him being a soldier as a teenager were probably just false memories he was given. This is just speculation, of course, but it's my two cents. 76.244.31.110 (talk) 21:24, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, but Adama knew him for nearly all the inter-war period (30 years) and how would he then be in the military records and get his promotions? Its still unlikely, and when he learns he's a Cylon Tigh says "...my 40 years in the service, two wars!" which means that this model really did participate in the first war. I don't see how they can fix this later on... --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 07:44, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

As you said, Tigh said that he served for 40 years. Perhaps he thinks he did, when he only recieved memories. Remember, the four revealed members of the Final Five don't know the full extent of their existence as Cylons yet. As for him meeting Adama, maybe his model was in use by then, despite the hybrid experimentation thing. Though, since his model number is at the least number 7, this is odd. Maybe the numbers don't relate to the time of creation. 76.244.31.110 (talk) 19:38, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Its possible the writers will use this explanation, but I'm not sure... There's still one unresolved issue: the military records. He was known as a soldier back then, and he got his promotions based on his years of service. It's highly unlikely all this, and the memories of the people who've known him (obviously he'd need recommendations), could have been forged. Also: he would obviously age during 30 years, cylon models don't age (they all look the same). --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 20:14, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Humanoid Cylon never appear to age because they download into new bodies frequently. If they stayed in the same body for years, they would age like any other biological entity. The Cavil models have obvsiously been affected by aging, though all of their copies start out in old age. All we know about Tigh's history is that Adama's known him for 28 years, he has records of military service during the first Cylon war, and he's a Cylon. We don't know his true history, or how he entered into Colonial society in the first place. Until that's revealed on the show, we can't say whether it all fits. 98.164.64.171 (talk) 23:37, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I guess you're right, I still can't see this all making sense, though... I can't escape the feeling that they simply made him a Cylon just because he's the last you'd expect, not because of some grand coherent story. --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 00:56, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I must say i really agree with the above comment more than any other of the comments here. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 12:31, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

In any case, there can be two explanations:
1) The Human Saul Tigh existed, but was replaced at one point (presumably 28 years ago, but possibly at some other time). A new thing for the Cylons, this model would then have to be created in the image of a living person and would have to be of the exact starting age as the real Tigh. This would also suggest that the Cylons had humanoids very early on.
2) The Human Saul Tigh never existed, and the Cylon entered society at least 28 years ago. In this case the Colonial Fleet records from the First Cylon War had to've been forged (as Cylons didn't have humanoids back then). Personally, this doesn't make sense to me, one cannot simply invent military records, achievements and a whole life just like that.
--DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 02:35, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Both explanations are kind of stupid, really. Anyone that has some kind of knowledge as to how this is explained by the writers please include it in the text. --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 03:00, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

It seems kind of stupid that there is a huge race of android who only created 12 models for infiltrating the humans. and also, that those twelve models exist in great quantities, but supposedly are expected to infiltrate in secret. wouldn't it make more sense to make hundreds of different models, so that if one is discovered, you still have hundreds to choose from? --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 12:33, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Maybe he is not a cylon but thiinks he is after all he was drinking when he first heard the noise —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.110.50.16 (talk) 23:32, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Nah, you can't get that drunk? ;) Anyway, its obvious once you think about it that it does not make sense. I can't believe the writers didn't give it a little thought.... --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 11:22, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Let's wait until the show actually gives an explanation. The writers said in an interview that they thought of something in regards to Tigh's history. Hopefully it'll be good. 98.164.64.171 (talk) 00:25, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

They did?! Well, let's hope so then. I certainly hope this won't ruin the show's otherwise flawless story integrity. --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 00:28, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

You all lack imagination. Clearly the final five are something very, very different from the other Cylon models. They most likely exist independently of the Colonial Cylons. The Hybrid seems to think they originally came from earth ("The home of the thirteenth"). So it's not at all a contradiction for Saul to have fought in the first cylon war, and to have aged. --86.135.176.189 (talk) 15:02, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Rear Admiral

Can William Adama really promote Tigh to Admiral? That's his rank. He should be limited to a promotion to Commander. Only Lee Adama can promote Tigh to Admiral. 70.55.86.34 (talk) 07:52, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't think he really was promoted, it was never said he was and he never actually wore the insignia. Unit commanders never have the authority to really promote anybody over E3 in the US. In the Army up to Specialist, but not Corporal. So in BSGs case they either just have him promoting whomever because of their situation or it is supposed to be that way in Colonial Fleet. Though Adama is "commander of the fleet" so that would probably be enough. As for promotions in the flag ranks, he wouldn't, at least if they are trying to keep it to the US way of things. Flag rank comes with appointment by the president to a position befitting of flag rank. Admirals are politicians, same for generals. --< Nicht Nein! (talk) 15:31, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Given the events at the start of season 4.5

I think it would be appropriate to change the beginning of the body of the page to stating that Tigh was a Viper pilot in the past versus having memories of being a Viper pilot. It is now clear that Col. Tigh was around for the First Cylon War as the Final Five do have a separate existence than the other seven. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zappa2496 (talk • contribs) 20:12, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

According to the episode "No Exit," they are indeed false memories. Tigh was introduced into the Colonial population after the war was over and his memories from the war (and eariler) were manufactured by Cavil. -209.40.212.28 (talk) 05:22, 18 February 2009 (UTC)