Talk:St Martin's Cathedral, Ypres

Correct Current Name

Please stop reverting the name of the article into 'cathedral' as it nowadays is NO longer one. Inside the article, there's plenty of room to explain that once it was. --Speha702 (talk) 09:18, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Please read WP:COMMONNAME. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:36, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Suggested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved per request. Favonian (talk) 14:04, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

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Saint Martin's Church (Ieper) → St Martin's Cathedral, Ypres – Although no longer the seat of a bishop, the church, in common with most other former cathedrals, is still commonly referred to as a cathedral. Recently moved without discussion and when reverted, once again moved because the editor in question (see above) apparently has not read WP:COMMONNAME and believes the article should be titled using the official name and follow Dutch Wikipedia - "coincidentally", it was the same editor who moved the article on Dutch Wikipedia from "cathedral" to "church" (maybe he thought we wouldn't notice that he was using his own move on that wiki to justify his move here!). We also use the name Ypres for the town, since that is still the common name in English (and the title of our article about it), despite it being in Flanders. I'm undecided as to whether the title should be St Martin's Cathedral, Ypres or Ypres Cathedral, but it's definitely commonly referred to as a cathedral, even by Ypres's own tourism site in both English and Dutch. It was, incidentally, formerly at Saint Martin's Cathedral, but the abbreviated "St" is far more common in English and I think the town needs to be specified for disambiguation purposes (as there are many cathedrals in the world dedicated to St Martin). -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:36, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

• Comment - another case for Wikipedia talk:RM on RMs starting from the wrong (controversial/undiscussed move) end. Let's restore the article first and then if Speha702 wants to put in a RM, let Speha702 put in a RM. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:51, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
  • That would be fine if he hadn't moved it back a second time without discussion! Sometimes there's nothing for it but a RM. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:03, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
    • Although the wording on WP:RM is watery and currently appears to favour undiscussed-movers, this is a classic case where a technical restore should be automatic. If this editor wants to put in a RM let him be the one to do it and present his case (which appears lousy btw even from Dutch sources). In ictu oculi (talk) 14:08, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
      • Support Saint Martin's Cathedral, Ypres as per Oreo Priest article creator (below). Also okay with St Martin's Cathedral, Ypres as Necrothesp, or St. Martin's Cathedral, Ypres as St. Martin's Cathedral, Bratislava St. Martin's Cathedral, Utrecht. But we wouldn't even need this discussion with a simple phrase added to WP:RM... In ictu oculi (talk) 01:35, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
• Support I agree that it should be restored first (to Saint Martin's Cathedral, Ypres or something similar; I've never heard a reference to simply 'Ypres Cathedral'), and a discussion should happen second. (I also have no preference for whether it's 'St' or 'Saint', or whether or not 'Ypres' appears at the end.) If the worry is that Speha will move it again without consensus, then hopefully Necrothesp or another admin could give the page move protection so that he can't. -Oreo Priest ^talk 18:03, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
• I almost made a very embarrassing comment about lepers. There's certainly no reason to use the non-English name of for Ypres here. --BDD (talk) 18:06, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
  • "Ypres" is the English name of the town as can be seen in the usage of the town's major English-language magazine, the Wipers Times. —  AjaxSmack  00:43, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
    • I imagine the awful look of Ieper in some fonts rather than French Ypres is one reason, apart from WWI/WWII, why there isn't a mad rush to abandon the old French name for the correct Dutch name in English.... In ictu oculi (talk) 02:09, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

• Ajax, you misread me, though the fault is mine for ambiguous phrasing. Corrected above. --BDD (talk) 17:45, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

• I should also mention that Speha has moved the page unilaterally not twice, but four total times: Feb. 2011, Aug. 2011, Jan 15. 2013 and Jan. 16 2013. At no point did he discuss the matter with other editors. Oreo Priest ^talk 18:21, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
  • For what it's worth, Speha has now also moved the Italian version. Oreo Priest ^talk 19:25, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
• Support. If we could possibly write the title in a way that did not imply that St. Martin had a dreadful disease, that would be a major improvement. The most notable St. Martin's Cathedral is St. Martin's Cathedral, Bratislava, so this one needs a disambiguator. Kauffner (talk) 22:36, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
• Support both procedurally (i.e., to reverse an undiscussed move) and on its merits (i.e., per nom and WP:UE). —  AjaxSmack  00:43, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.