Talk:Rodrigo (musician)

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Rodrigo (musician)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: EricEnfermero (talk · contribs) 05:47, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

I will take on this GA review. After a quick read, it looks to me like the product of a lot of hard work. In the next few days I will go through it more carefully and post some initial comments. Thanks to the nominator for your dedication so far. EricEnfermero ^Howdy! 05:47, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Lead

• The opening sentence is a bit cluttered. See WP:LEADCLUTTER. If the cities were removed from the parentheses, that would help.

Cities removed.--Rod840 (talk) 16:53, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

• The name of the nightclub, as a foreign language proper noun. should not be italicized. See WP:ITALICS.

Corrected.--Rod840 (talk) 15:16, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

• Clarify what CAPIF is. Since there is a link, you probably don't have to spell out the terms in English and Spanish, but I would at least say that it is a music ratings organization.

Since the link to CAPIF is there, and the name appears first on the phrase (certified gold by the CAPIF), it should be self-explanatory that the organism is similar to the RIAA, ARIA, etc.--Rod840 (talk) 16:53, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

• "Due to his demanding schedule..." - this four-part sentence should be rewritten for easier reading.

Rephrased.--Rod840 (talk) 16:45, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Career

• The sourcing implies that the first citation supports his mother's occupation. The source mentions her name, but I don't see anything about her occupation. There are several other examples where a cited sentence really isn't supported by the source.

I added a source citing that she owned a newsstand, and removed "songwriter", since I can't find a source that confirms it. Would you list the rest of the other sentences that are not supported? As you can notice, the articles tend to be long and I'm positive that I might have committed a few mistakes either by citing another article, or just forgetting that I had to use another article to cite a specific detail.--Rod840 (talk) 16:21, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

• "Bueno was born into the cuarteto..." - run-on sentence.

Is it better now?--Rod840 (talk) 16:21, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

• The grammar and spelling need some adjustments in the body of the article, starting with "acquittance" versus "acquaintance". Another one which appears in multiple places and could be a mistake: "assisted at" versus "attended" (asistir = to attend). I can proofread the article once we work out these other issues.

I fixed those two, but as you said, it'll need a closer revision.--Rod840 (talk) 16:21, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

• "Due to the impossibility..." - I doubt that it was impossible. He just wasn't successful.

Replaced.--Rod840 (talk) 16:21, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

• "After six months of mourning, the same year" - take out "the same year" - that is understood.

Done--Rod840 (talk) 15:24, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

• "The sold out event..." - why four references for this sentence?

Each one of the references confirms a different part of the sentence. One that it was a sold out event, that it was scheduled for eight performances, and the extension to thirteen concerts. Most of the cited references were newspaper articles published at the time, so the missing facts from one article, are clarified by the next reference.--Rod840 (talk) 16:21, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

I replaced two of the sources by one.--Rod840 (talk) 18:13, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

• I don't see where the source mentions his motivations for drinking. I could be missing it. It's a long source.

Su rutina de fin de semana incluía entre ocho y diez recitales por noche; tocaba 20 minutos en un boliche y salía disparado hacia el siguiente cambalache de asedio femenino, custodias rigurosas y camarines bien provistos. Una noche tocó en cuatro provincias: Corrientes, Salta, Santiago del Estero y Tucumán. Sólo tomaba cerveza helada, en cantidades industriales, que le daba valor para convertir el escenario en un ring de boxeo, como a él le gustaba. Se alimentaba con la energía asfixiante de miles de fans, y si no alcanzaba con eso, dosis de suero líquido recetado para niños oxigenaban sus neuronas para que pudiesen dar el golpe de KO final.

--Rod840 (talk) 16:21, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Death

• Military time is used early in the section, with AM/PM used later.

Changed to military time.--Rod840 (talk) 16:36, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

• "One-way glass" - To me, when used specifically in regard to cars, "tinted windows" is more widely understood.

replaced.--Rod840 (talk) 16:36, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

• I'm on the fence, but not sure if the part about The 27 Club is encyclopedic or trivial.

Not sure either. We'll need to find a previous GA/FA where that was discussed or a third opinion.--Rod840 (talk) 16:36, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

• What is a judicial intermodal container? Is there a simpler term?

I rephrased the sentence. Reads better now?--Rod840 (talk) 16:36, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Legacy

• Is there any objective information about the reception of Rodrigo, La Pelicula? (Ratings? Reviews?)

Review added--Rod840 (talk) 21:05, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Discography

• The sentence before the chart may be better as a footnote.

Done.--Rod840 (talk) 22:26, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

I will make some minor copyedits to the article. Once we address the above feedback, I'll re-evaluate one more time. I'm placing this nomination on hold for one week. Thanks for your work so far. EricEnfermero ^Howdy! 08:09, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

I added more information from new sources, so I guess the sections "Cuarteto Característico Rodrigo A 2000 live performances" and "death" will need a second look.--Rod840 (talk) 22:30, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Sourcing issues

As requested, here is more information on the referencing problems mentioned above. Taken individually, these might not prevent promotion to GA, but in general the referencing just needs to be tightened up a little. Examples:

• In the early life section, I can't find any mention in the source re: his father's association with BMG, Sony or Columbia Records.

This source, that was already in use states that he was an executive of Columbia Records: Resulta que, ya instalado en Buenos Aires, Rodrigo actuaba esa noche en una bailanta. Su padre, representante de varios sellos discográficos —CBS y Columbia, entre ellos (Either the interviewer or interviewed didn't notice that CBS and Columbia Records are the same label). Meanwhile I added this source from the newspaper Clarín, that links him to BMG. That BMG is a subsidiary of Sony Music was just an unsourced clarification that can be erased at any time, since BMG is already linked.--Rod840 (talk) 20:55, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

• Cited source doesn't mention the channel for the Carozo y Narizota program.

I removed the channel. I can't find any source that links the use of the song with the original broadcast on Channel 13. Since the song is still used as the main theme, and the program changed from channel to channel I don't think that it is too relevant. I only found this source that links the song to the broadcasts in Crónica TV. It is not very relevant either because as [this article] indicates, the broadcasts started on that channel in 1995, and the use of the song started back in the 80s.--Rod840 (talk) 20:55, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

• Under Legacy, the source doesn't attribute cuarteto to Cordoba.

I added a source from a non-argentinian newspaper that should properly explain the origins of the cuarteto in Córdoba and Bueno's impact, taking it to a national level.

I had a couple of other concerns, but I ultimately found the information in the cited sources. One last question concerns the mention of saline solution. Saline and other routine intravenous fluids are not typically substances of abuse. I'm not following the significance of using small amounts of sterile salt water.

The use of the saline solution was included merely to point out that Bueno used it due to exhaustion, and not as an addiction. The original statement by bueno appeared in an edition of Noticias magazine. (you can read more about it on the Rolling Stone source). If it is not relevant or confusing, we can erase that part.--Rod840 (talk) 20:55, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Good work so far! We're almost there. EricEnfermero ^Howdy! 19:45, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for addressing the last bit of feedback. I ran through again and made some copyedits. I did remove the mention of the saline, because I think it distracts from the main point. One final question: On the image of Rodrigo as a child, it says that the image is in the public domain in Argentina. While it does appear to be more than 25 years old, I don't see the evidence that it was published anywhere >20 years ago. If we can clarify this, I think we can promote this to GA. Any remaining issues are probably beyond the scope of GA. EricEnfermero ^Howdy! 05:02, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

The deletion of the file was previously discussed here and kept. Basically the reason is that it belongs to the archives of La Voz del Interior, and was published before Rodrigo became a star (more about it on the deletion page).--Rod840 (talk) 13:51, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

I know that the deletion discussion was dropped, but surely there is a way that we can actually verify the publication date of the image. See the warning under the Licensing section on the image's Commons page. The hyperlink to the La Voz archives isn't working for me. EricEnfermero ^Howdy! 05:26, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

You can see the photograph on this article to the right, under "Foto Galería". If you click on it, you'll see this page. I'm not aware of the date when the picture was originally published. I only know that La Voz included it on a piece about Chebere between 1979-1980. On the website, under the picture reads RODRIGO. Una fotografía de su infancia (Archivo) [RODRIGO. A photograph from his childhood (Archive)].

That's my question: How do we know that the image appeared in the Chebere article in 1979 or 1980 and why isn't that evidence found in the image description? The web link to the photo only mentions all rights reserved from 2000 on. EricEnfermero ^Howdy! 19:41, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

I've been looking for any version of that article online, but so far I couldn't. Probably the best thing would be to get rid of the pic. It's illustrative, but there's not enough info.--Rod840 (talk) 15:00, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Considering that the picture is definitively older than 25 years, and the site confirms that the source are the archives of La Voz, at the time I decided that it was enough to upload it. --Rod840 (talk) 17:56, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it would be relevant to add it again to the article again, but after watching once more this interview, it can be used as a reference to the line that stated that Beatriz Bueno was also a songwriter (she wrote for Cuarteto Leo and La Mona Jiménez) and it also can be used as a reference to the Carozo Y Narizota broadcasts of Channel 13.--Rod840 (talk) 18:47, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Whatever you would like to do. I think we can wrap this up if we resolve the copyright issue. EricEnfermero ^Howdy! 19:41, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

All solved, I put those back in the article and we can close too that thing with the copyright.--Rod840 (talk) 15:00, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	Reviewer and nominator made significant edits to grammar per review feedback.
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.	Nominator clarified sourcing in some areas per review feedback.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	Spot checks of references reveal no outstanding issues.
	2c. it contains no original research.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	One image removed from article due to concern regarding public domain rationale.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
	7. Overall assessment.	Promoting to GA.

Thanks to the nominator for a great read and for working diligently to address the GA review feedback. EricEnfermero ^Howdy! 07:58, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Repetitive

I have done a small copyedit to the article, but I think it needs a major trimming; much of the information in the earlier paragraphs is merely repeated later on - one of them needs to go or it makes a dull read. Brookie :) { - he's in the building somewhere!} ^(Whisper...) 15:13, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

• "Much of the information" is repeated on the first paragraph because it is a summary of the article according to Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section ("The lead serves as an introduction to the article and a summary of its most important aspects. [...] The lead should be able to stand alone as a concise overview. It should define the topic, establish context, explain why the topic is notable, and summarize the most important points—including any prominent controversies")
• I removed the "citation needed" from the lead. Citations ("Complex, current, or controversial subjects may require many citations; others, few or none. The presence of citations in the introduction is neither required in every article nor prohibited in any article.")--Rod840 (talk) 20:36, 23 April 2013 (UTC)