Talk:Richard Hoffmann (composer)

Requested move 1 January 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Mixed.. Consensus not to move the articles as suggested, recognising that the slightly different spellings are sufficient as dab. However, there is consensus to move Richard Hoffmann (composer, 1925) away from non-standard dab. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 16:18, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

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• Richard Hoffmann (composer, 1925) → Richard Hoffmann (composer, born 1925)
• Richard Hofmann (composer) → Richard Hofmann (composer, born 1844)
• Richard Hoffman (composer) → Richard Hoffman (composer, born 1831)

– Coincidentally, there are three Richards with similar last names (Hoffmann, Hofmann, Hoffman) who were all composers. The main article I'm requesting to rename is the first one listed which is Richard Hoffmann (composer, 1925) because the title says 1925 when it should say born 1925. For the other two, I'm leaning towards including their birth year in the title just because of how similar their names are. TableTennisNoob432 (talk) 07:23, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose – The different names, while similar, still serve as disambiguators between the composers and so more isn't needed per WP:CONCISE. Instead, {{For}} in the heading of each article linking to the other two composers is appropriate. Also move Richard Hoffmann (composer, 1925) to Richard Hoffmann (composer) – there are no other Wikipedia pages for composers with that name and the current name violates WP:NCPDAB per nom. Randi Moth (talk) 09:01, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per User:Randi Moth. 162 etc. (talk) 18:31, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per SMALLDIFFERENCES, a hatnote should be okay.--Ortizesp (talk) 23:28, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
• What? How can anyone be opposing 1 and 3. @Ortizesp: Am I missing something? In ictu oculi (talk) 13:31, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Oh I see there is a single n. Well let's not make life easier for readers. Oppose on the grounds of helpfulness. We are not here to help readers. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:32, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

I assume that you're being tongue-in-cheek, which doesn't always come across well. Could you please explain in more detail how the title change would be more helpful compared to the currently-proposed alternative of a hatnote with the concise title names? As I understand, disambiguifying information of this sort is already provided in the first sentence of the article, so anyone on the wrong composer's page wouldn't take much longer to understand this compared to it being in the title. The hatnote, while not mutually exclusive with the detailed title, would warn the reader that there are other composers with similar names the same as the detailed title would and also provide the links to anyone that he may be confused with. Randi Moth (talk) 20:36, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

• Comment – I have created Richard Hoffmann (composer) as a redirect to Richard Hoffmann (composer, 1925) for now and added or changed the hatnotes on the composer pages to link to the other 2 similarly-named composers, since I believe that would need to be done regardless of the results of the move request. Randi Moth (talk) 09:39, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

  Your suggestion makes sense. I agree that having the hatnote on each composer's article would be more useful so that readers can figure it out instead of having them find it off of the year they were born. I support having the first article (Richard Hoffmann (composer, 1925)) being moved to the new page you created which is Richard Hoffmann (composer). The 2nd and 3rd article can remain unchanged. Thanks for creating the new page. TableTennisNoob432 (talk) 02:23, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose, but move Richard Hoffmann (composer, 1925) to Richard Hoffmann (composer) away from non-standard disambiguation. The disambiguation page Richard Hoffman is sufficient to distinguish them. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:15, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.