Talk:Princess Maria of Romania (1870–1874)

Requested move 3 November 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Consensus to not move (non-admin closure) CThomas³ (talk) 23:29, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

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Princess Maria of Romania (1870–1874) → Princess Maria of Romania – We have no other person called exactly "Princess Maria of Romania" on Wikipedia, we do have some with similar names, but this can be dealt with by hatnotes and a disambiguation page. PatGallacher (talk) 01:32, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose. No evidence for primary topic. DrKay (talk) 17:03, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose, mostly because the youngest daughter of King Michael actually is Princess Maria of Romania, but for some bizarre reason, is listed as Marie, even though I don't know any source that calls her this. Piratesswoop (talk) 17:47, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
• Reply No, she's not just the primary topic, she's the only topic! As for the issue of whether the currently living person should be called Maria, it's a legitimate debate, but there was a request in 2018 to move her from Marie to Maria, it was defeated, we ought to take this into account. PatGallacher (talk) 18:03, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

• That move request wasn't defeated. I withdrew it because the suggested target was ambiguous. DrKay (talk) 18:49, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
• No she isn't. Maria of Yugoslavia was Princess Maria of Romania from 1914 to 1922. Princess Marie of Romania is also called Maria in Romanian. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:32, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose, ambiguous. Maria and Marie are the same name, the difference is mere dialect. Hatnotes are not desirable. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 09:26, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Eh? Hatnotes are a well-established feature on Wikipedia. PatGallacher (talk) 00:18, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
    • Hatnotes are ugly distract crutches. They consume article prime real estate, where they make up for an inadequate, ambiguous, or mis-recognizable title. They exist only for readers who land on the page not actually wanting the page, which is prime evidence for the title being inadequate. In contrast, the title space is held in reserve as whitespace that fits 42 characters on the standard output. Taking a title of under 42 characters, converting some of it to title whitespace, and adding(keeping) a hatnote to rescue misdirected readers, is that not just plain stupid? Also note that in some outputs, including standard small mobile devices, the hatnotes are not displayed. Hatnotes work, but they are no substitute for an adequate title. The proposed title misleadingly implies that this person is a very important, dominating interest over the multiple other similarly named people, which is not true. Uncertainties should not be resolved primarily by a hatnote, but by an unambiguous title. For biographies, a parenthetical YYYY format (born-died) is pretty standard default, with other disambiguators/clarifiers being justified if used in sources. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 02:25, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
      • See Wikipedia:Hatnote. PatGallacher (talk) 22:11, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
        • Wikipedia:Hatnote describes how to use hatnotes when there is a problem. Wikipedia:Hatnote does not say it is OK to create problems because hatnotes can fix them. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 23:12, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose. Ambiguous and no clear primary topic. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:29, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
• Support per nomination. Sole Wikipedia main title header bearing the form "Princess Maria of Romania". Any uncertainties would be resolved via a hatnote. Each of the four entries at the Marie of Romania (disambiguation) page already carries a hatnote, thus the parenthetical qualifier "(1870–1874)" is unnecessary. If consensus does nevertheless prefer a qualifier, the more-descriptive form "(daughter of Carol I of Romania)" or the shorter "(daughter of Carol I)" would be preferable. Such a form would be analogous to Elizabeth Stuart (daughter of Charles I), Anne of York (daughter of Edward IV), Julia Drusilla (daughter of Caligula), Julia (daughter of Caesar), Cornelia (wife of Caesar), Julia Major (sister of Caesar), Julia Minor (sister of Caesar), Julia (mother of Mark Antony), Julia (wife of Marius), Julia (wife of Sulla), Wang Yi (wife of Zhao Ang), Ayşe Sultan (wife of Murad IV) or Anne Hathaway (wife of Shakespeare). —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 23:40, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose There are Three ‘Princess Maria’s of Romania’ - 1) living from 1870-1874, 2) living from 1900-1961 who was Queen Maria of Serbia from 1922-1929, Queen Maria of Yugoslavia from 1929-1934 and finally Queen Maria, The Queen Mother of Yugoslavia from 1934-1961 3) currently living since 1964 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.252.184.83 (talk) 15:27, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.