Talk:Patton

Requested move 9 December 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: restored status quo ante since the editor who changed the status quo ante requested it. Also splitting the page history. The support !votes below would become blurry as to whether they actually supported the proposal or supported an implicit alternate proposal, which I will open below. -- JHunterJ (talk) 13:46, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

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Patton → Patton (surname) – Assuming the consensus remains to keep the "Patton" redirect at the WP:PRIMARY of George S. Patton, this set index describes individuals with the surname, and should be amiguated as such. Jalen D. Folf (talk) 22:39, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

• Support - If I'm understanding this correctly: "Patton" should re-direct to "George S. Patton", and the dab page currently residing at "Patton" should be moved to "Patton (surname)". Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:33, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
• Support per BMK. The general is the primary topic. Calidum 03:12, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
• Support per the above. --John (User:Jwy/talk) 03:54, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
• I support this proposed move but oppose directing Patton to George S. Patton. Instead, the disambiguation page should be moved to the base name. There are too many other entries called simply "Patton" (e.g. the movie) for WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT to made without evidence. —  AjaxSmack  05:13, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

this convinces me. --John (User:Jwy/talk) 06:22, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

• Support BUT move Patton (disambiguation) to baseline. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:06, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
• Support But move DAB to basename per Ajex and IIO, I'd agree there are too many uses and George S. Patton is already primary for George Patton. I'd say its obvious people would search for him with more than just "Patton". Crouch, Swale (talk) 11:58, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Change in primary topic proposal

There is a rough consensus for:

• Status quo: "Patton" has a primary topic of the general, George S. Patton

Cunard (talk) 23:43, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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The supports for the move request above became muddied as to whether they were supporting the proposal to restore the undiscussed change of primary topic for "Patton" from the general to the surname or to no primary topic. Revisiting that discussion here after splitting the edit history from the change. Three different options of where Patton should "land".

1. Status quo: "Patton" has a primary topic of the general
2. "Patton" has no primary topic and the disambiguation page should be moved to the base name.
3. Change the primary topic of "Patton" to the surname (by moving the surname article to the base name)

The page views given in the move request indicate that the general is still the primary topic, and "too many uses" is not evidence that one of the many uses isn't primary. -- JHunterJ (talk) 13:56, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

• Support 1 per the data presented by Jwy in the original discussion above. Jalen D. Folf (talk) 15:25, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
• Support 1 per above. Most people searching for "Patton" are looking for "GEN George S.". For the few others, the hatnote on his page takes them to the dab page and they can choose from there. That's not too onerous. - wolf 15:59, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
• Support 2 yes George gets more views than the film based on him (99,049 v 17,074) but as noted most of those 99,049 would use his full name and there are many unrelated uses. Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:12, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

  How did you determine most of them would have used the full name to reach the article? -- JHunterJ (talk) 20:12, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

  Much fewer than half of the readers using Patton continue on to the disambiguation page.[1] -- JHunterJ (talk) 20:15, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

  Most people searching an encyclopedia would expect the first name to be included, even though he is someone known sometimes by his last name only. The page hits to the DAB v redirect are better evidence of a PT though. Remember the 99,049 v 17,074 doesn't include the large number of other entries on the DAB such as the places. Crouch, Swale (talk) 20:56, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

  Those are two questions: do readers expect to find the first name in the title of an article about Patton? and do readers primarily expect to reach that article when looking for "Patton"? The first question is irrelevant to the second. -- JHunterJ (talk) 21:55, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

  The first question is irrelevent to the 2nd which is why the views for George S. Patton are irreverent. The question is if people are much more likely to be looking for him when seraching for just "Patton" than the others. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:48, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

• Notifying User:Beyond My Ken, User:Calidum and User:In ictu oculi of this discussion. —  AjaxSmack  03:16, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
• Support 1 - For the obvious reason: there's no entry on the "surname" page that comes even remotely close to the notability of the George S Patton. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:22, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
• Support 2 Mononym surname primary redirects aren't generally a good idea. Stalin and so on yes. But Patton, Shropshire and Patton, Pennsylvania aren't named after him but are small places with long histories. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:26, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

  This is a specific case, not a general proposal. CF Churchill vs Churchill, Oxfordshire for places with longer histories that the primary topic. -- JHunterJ (talk) 16:40, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

• Support 1. The general is the primary topic. Calidum 20:25, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
• Support 1. Yes. He is the primary topic. --John (User:Jwy/talk) 04:33, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Patton (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 17:16, 14 September 2022 (UTC)