Talk:Patrick Macnee

"Engish Born American Actor"

<nowiki>Well, what can I say, it says "English born American Actor"... that is a nonesense statement. Patrick is English, he has works in TV and film world wide, through the Avengers and other series. He has even appeared in Music video's for English bands, such as Oasis, as such I find fault in this description of him as "American Actor" and will remove it forth with. I only leave this discussion stub, as I know how protective of good talent the American race are, but unfortunately, he is English. -- Xelous 6th August 2007.</nowiki>

Now I really don't get it, it has been edited to English/American Actor, what is this passion to make Patrick American, he's not, he's English, he's just worked in America. Would we call Sean Connery an Scottish/American Actors because he happens to have worked in America?.. No, Sean is Scottish... and Patrick is English, I feel the article needs to remove the American reference to this person and leave it like that, not keep dancing around that he is American, when he is clearly not.

-- Xelous 16th August 2007.

According to the entry, he's been a US citizen since 1959. That makes him a bit American, doesn't it? Widmerpool 06:05, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

While it mentions his being born a British national, no mention is made on the official Patrick Macnee website of any conversion to American citizenship or dual British/American citizenship. Until a reliable citation can be found (printed biography/autobiography) reference of American citizenship should be omitted.82.44.82.167 (talk) 00:23, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

There is no indication anywhere of him being a US citizen. He has an aristocratic background, why would he want or need to be American? He was working in London during the early 60's. PeterM88 (talk) 21:30, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

" According to the entry, he's been a US citizen since 1959. That makes him a bit American, doesn't it? Widmerpool 06:05, 21 October 2007 (UTC)" No, it doesn't. Americans need to stop attempting to claim people are American because they decided to get a Visa to work in America, especially those in the media. America offers opportunities for Actors and Musicians that many other countries don't and so getting an American citizenship is helpful career wise. It has nothing to do with identifying as American or actually considering oneself American. At all. The vast majority of people on Earth have less than no desire to become American. 86.2.213.86 (talk) 15:39, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

If one has American citizenship, one is accurately described as "American", just as one may call someone who is 6'10" (208 cm) "tall" without worrying that the person may "identify" as "short". You're taking the substitution of how one identifies for the standard use of adjectives—to describe the qualities that they're commonly understood to connote, whether it be to describe a rock, a leaf, a bird, or a person—to extremes. Largoplazo (talk) 18:39, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Hard to imagine a less typical "American actor", nor one who typifies the English gent more than Macnee. Perhaps we have Steed to blame for that. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:54, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

I'll assume that's intended as a pleasantry and not an argument for basing nationalities given in bios on stereotypes rather than objective criteria. Largoplazo (talk) 19:18, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

I find it helps to be pleasant, at least occasionally. I think many people would be surprised that he was an American. That wasn't always the case, was it? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:55, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Scrooge

"He also did an introduction for Scrooge, a 1953 Christmas film which was made in colour by The Sun." Does this make sense to anyone? Since when did The Sun newspaper make movies? And The Sun wasn't even in existence in 1953. Does anyone know what's going on here? Widmerpool 06:08, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Looks like a hoax. There's no such film listed in IMDb, so I deleted it. I was pleasantly surprised to learn that he was in the classic 1951 version though. Clarityfiend 07:58, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Hoax? There's mention of his 3rd wife dying but no reference and no information from Google. If you find a reference, make a note of it. If she is still alive, it's very improper to say someone is dead. User F203 (talk) 20:05, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

The Sun included a free colorized DVD of the 1951 'A Christmas Carol' with Patrick providing the introduction to the film. The writer wasn't saying that The Sun produced the film! lol (75.94.101.187 (talk) 04:11, 9 April 2014 (UTC))

Use of firearms

I have removed the entry stating that Patrick Macnee would not have 'anything to do with firearms' after his service in WW2. His John Steed character was rarely involved in gun play simply to maintain the character. There is a good source listing Patrick Macnee's use of firearms within his acting roles — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.45.172 (talk) 20:59, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Apparently he made a distinction between carrying one and using one that was laying around? I really wish the IMFDb database had listed the actual episodes; it would be easier to check the circumstances. Clarityfiend (talk) 21:03, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, the IMFDb is a wiki, it isn't an admissible source. The issue should be mentioned though. Philip Cross (talk) 09:44, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

The IMFDB list is irritatingly not episode-specific. But The Avengers Companion by Alain Carraze & Jean-Luc Putheaud, tr Paul Buck, Titan Books 1997, ISBN 1-85286-728-0, has stills showing Macnee as Steed wielding a handgun on p.47 (a Luger-style automatic, from Episode 12, Dance With Death, 1st Season 1961, with Ian Hendry), p.50 (a .38 revolver, from Episode 33, The Mauritius Penny, 2nd Season 1962-3, with Honor Blackman) and p.147 (small Beretta-style pocket automatic, from Episode 130, Game, 6th Season 1968-9, with Linda Thorson). Steed didn't actually shoot people, though, or not on screen -- in one of the later episodes, I forget which, he was surprised that a certain baddie had apparently turned up (the baddie had been kept on ice, I think) because, he said, 'I shot him in 1945. I shot him in the heart.' Khamba Tendal (talk) 20:19, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

References

Macnee’s mother…

On mother, I have changed her name from 'Dorothea Mary Hastings' to 'Dorothea Mabel Henry' - Mabel is her correct middle name (although she was sometimes called Mary) and Hastings was the surname on Dorothea's mother's side of the family. Macnee's autobiography confirms his maternal grandfather had the surname 'Henry' at page 84, and see: http://search.findmypast.co.uk/results/united-kingdom-records-in-birth-marriage-death-and-parish-records/and_births-and-baptisms?firstname=dorothea&lastname=henry&yearofbirth=1896&yearofbirth_offset=0. I have changed 'divorced' to 'separated' as I can find no trace of a divorce. No mention of one in Macnee's autobiography and Dorothea inherits the bulk of Daniel's estate on his death in 1952. (autobiography page 171) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Helensq (talk • contribs) 21:27, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

A small thing, but the sentence that says his mother “became” a lesbian sounds awkward and clunky. It may be that it is the current best terminology available, but is there are better turn of phrase that could be employed? To say that she started to identify as a lesbian might be too woolly, and to say that she “came out” might be considered somewhat anachronistic (and not necessarily correct, as it may have been a situation kept within her immediate circle, or something that she never actually declared (I simply don’t know)). Would it be better put that his parents divorced after his mother left to live with a female partner? I don’t wish to suggest that her sexuality should not be identified or expunged from the record, far from it, especially as Macnee seems to have believed that his complicated family upbringing might have led to some of his shortcomings with his wives and children; but it shouldn’t sound as abrupt a transformation as it does here…? Jock123 (talk) 09:39, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

I think my new rendering "began to identify as a lesbian" is acceptable, and not woolly. I have a habit of deleting British honours (Sir, Lord, Dame, etc) when they are applied to an individual long before they received a knighthood or peerage, which is why I used the term "in this case" in my edit summary. In the same way that the n-word would be normally unacceptable, even when non-anachronistic, I thought "declared her lesbianism and took up company", in the earlier version, was somewhat pejorative and insensitive, so I changed it. Philip Cross (talk) 10:01, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

On a personal note, Macnee's openness about growing up with two mothers always impressed me. Often it seems that modern media think that same-sex couples raising children is a new thing, I certainly have used Macnee's story as a counter-example for this perception. --Fæ (talk) 13:51, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

I find the unusual aspect of Macnee's family quite surprising and, like you, quite surprising. But one does find that within the British upper classes, bizarre family situations are quite common and that acceptance of homosexuality was no big deal. Mind you, Macnee also goes on to mention that his upbringing may have contributed to his own problems with relationships, so he's probably not a shining example of how same-sex couples can raise well-balanced children. In his autobiography, he discusses all this very openly and he does mention that in a large part he was raised by his mother's lover on her won, rather than as part of a couple. Different days back then. But a truly fascinating aspect of his life. Kodabar (talk) 20:31, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Portrait

I have removed File:Patrick_Macnee_in_Lobster_man_from_Mars.jpg as the leading portrait photograph, prompt action seems appropriate as the image will be much in demand for obituaries. The image had been marked as public domain in 2007 based on an OTRS correspondence which has been challenged. A fair use claim cannot apply as there are other photographs available (in line with BDP). See c:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Patrick Macnee in Lobster man from Mars.jpg. --Fæ (talk) 13:15, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

How tragic. Lobster Man from Mars sounds so much more exciting than Beige Raincoated Detective from LA. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:28, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

There is another rather nice portrait at c:Patrick Macnee of him in The Avengers with Linda Thorson. If anyone wants to put in the leg-work, it could be that we can get a release for several film stills from the director (the original OTRS correspondent in 2007), or indeed get several completely different shots of Macnee released on Commons (we have no amateur personal photographs, for example). --Fæ (talk) 13:46, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Hmm. Tricky choice for the weekend... OTRS, or DIY root-canal work with no anaesthetic. I'll let you know. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:53, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Spooky, broke a tooth yesterday and the earliest the dentist can see me is Monday. It's a good comparison for OTRS. --Fæ (talk) 14:08, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Hope it's only cosmetic Martinevans123 (talk) 14:24, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Cause of death

The Daily Mail says that he "died of natural causes": [1]. But this has been removed from the article as "Not a cause of death". Is this correct? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:58, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

The field from what I understand is for specific causes of death, eg. stroke, heart attack, pneumonia, etc.. "Natural causes" just states that he died naturally and that his death was not unnatural (eg. injury/homicide), which really isn't considered a cause of death, imo. It's fine to mention in the prose, but I think it's unnecessary for the infobox unless it's a specific cause. Connormah (talk) 19:52, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

A logical fallacy, of course, since without the normal, there can be no exceptions. Good job Wikipedia never has to be trusted. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:12, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Nudist

Why does the article not mention that Patrick MacNee was an enthusiastic nudist? HandsomeMrToad (talk) 01:43, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Fixed, with a reference. HandsomeMrToad (talk) 01:45, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Is The Daily Beast really considered a good WP:RS? The claim appears in only a single mention: ".. lived most of his life in Southern California, where he enjoyed the climate and—having decided his sexual and personal development had been distorted by his childhood—became an enthusiastic nudist." Is there any corroboration elsewhere? And I think the preferred term is naturist. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:47, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Sherlock Holmes: The Case of the Temporal Nexus

Macnee is listed as playing Holmes a second time in "the 1996 TV film Sherlock Holmes: The Case of the Temporal Nexus", which is a red link. Does this movie even exist? I cannot find any proof that it does, even IMDb doesn't list it, while this page lists it as "never filmed". --Newblackwhite (talk) 13:05, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Maybe the name was changed since being shown at the 1996 Cannes Film Market, there exists a 1996 TV Movie/Documentary called "In the Footsteps of Sherlock Holmes" which is available as a 90 minute DVD from Amazon (B000BJ88AE), is listed on imdb (tt1618378) and is hosted by Patrick Macnee. But it is not currently listed on his page. My guess would be that after it was sold the placeholder title was probably changed to better match the actual content. 109.255.81.75 (talk) 07:51, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Missing references

Hi, I'm new, been trying out Ref converter and been relatively successfully until Patrick Macnee's page, all refs bar 1 have vanished. How do I start to get it rollbacked? Any help is greatly appreciated. Warm regards. ( Amnesiac radar (talk) 19:56, 6 February 2019 (UTC) )

Article Lead

I expanded the lead, which was tagged as too short, to include more of an overview of the article. McCoygetz (talk) 22:50, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Assistants? No

Why does the article repeatedly refer to his "female assistants" in The Avengers TV series? Both Mrs Gale and Mrs Peel were explicitly designed to be equal *partners*, not assistants, and the producers, writers, and Macnee himself have been careful to always refer to them as such. 2.31.162.93 (talk) 10:14, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Opening picture

In the photo above the info box his face is very dark, almost to the point of him not being recognizable. Is a better one available? RASAM (talk) 15:00, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Introduction

I've rewritten the introduction to correct the issue of it being too long. Have left the alert on for now so others can judge whether it's now short enough. Also noticed a lot of sloppy writing and repetition in the old version; it cited the Avengers as having 8 series (it had 6,) mentioned his film roles in This Is Spinal Tap and A View to a Kill twice, in seperate paragraphs, yet also left out things like his top 10 single. Hopefully this new one is acceptable. FreeBard42 (talk) 11:34, 31 August 2023 (UTC)