Talk:Odd Nerdrum

Useful heading?

Why are these persons in see also section? feydey 00:52, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Laila carlsen was speedied for A7, so that at least can go. Darkspots 02:28, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

see also

• Ernst Fuchs
• Mark Ryden
• Laila carlsen student of Nerdrum
• Antonio Roybal

Draft for rewrite

Material that needs rewriting: far too similar to apparent source, here. Tearlach 20:54, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

While showing some affinity in technique with Rembrandt and Caravaggio, Nerdrum's paintings are undoubtedly contemporary and depict many of the anxieties we feel about the modern world. From the 1980s onward, his work took on a more mythical appearance with figures roaming through an apocalyptic landscape. In the spring of 1986, Odd Nerdrum visited Iceland for the first time. He then started to use the landscape in Iceland as backdrops for his allegorical paintings. It is sometimes difficult to tell whether the paintings show the past, present or future. Perhaps this is the point they are timeless. There was growing unease and tension in his paintings in the early 1990s. Relations between men and women appear strained, but there is a more conciliatory spirit in some lighter works produced in the summer of 1997. Themes recently seem to be centred around gender and the metamorphosis of the human body, seen in any works depicting hermaphrodite figures in which man and woman merge. Other works show the images of the artist asleep. It is even possible that these images are metaphors for death or other anxieties. Of course in common with most of his work there is a degree of mystery and this is what gives his work its compelling and imaginative qualities. In Odd Nerdrum's new body of work he continues his exploration of the human condition. This time, however, he removes the figure from the Icelandic landscape. Nerdrum’s places the figures floating in space. Human beings are depicted suspended in space, embracing, wrestling, struggling, and floating helplessly. The people are naked and everything else connected with earthly needs, such as gravity and consumption is removed.

Saving bibliography until correct format implemented

Odd Nerdrum:Paintings,Sketches and drawings by Richard Vine.

Odd Nerdrum: Paintings by Jan-Erik Ebbestad Hansen

Odd Nerdrum:Storyteller and Self Revealer by Jan-Åke Pettersson.

Odd Nerdrum: Drawings by Odd Nerdrum.

Odd Nerdrum: Themes by Odd Nerdrum and Bjorn Li.

Source needed for painting technique

Per WP:BLP I am removing the following unsourced content. I'll take a look tomorrow and see of I can find the source unless the editor who added this material sources it. (olive (talk) 01:29, 8 April 2010 (UTC))

He works up the painting in many layers. In a the January 1999 edition of ArtNews he is quoted as saying, "I paint over and over again, so the paint becomes transparent. I scrape down and layer up. A painting acquires a history that you can't fabricate. You never succeed, you have to keep trying. I see my mistakes all the time--they scream out at me like a soft mosaic requiring endless work... Today you cannot just be another 17th century master, another copy, a repetition. You have to be the best."

He has studied Rembrandt and other masters extensively. Which is especially evident in his rendering of flesh which at times seems so tangible that it transcends the fact that it is only paint on linen. Contrary to the trend of contemporary art, he values the work of the artist's hand (often derogatorily refered to as "le patte" [the paw] by Duchamp).

Update: It looks as if this content is taken from an advertisement in ARTnews that contained Nerdrum's comments. That advertisement is not available online. I'll see of I can get the original magazine, but then we still have to deal with whether the ad itself can be considered a reliable source. I have two of Nerdrum's books and will check the newest one for information on painting technique.(olive (talk) 18:31, 8 April 2010 (UTC))

Researching Nerdrum

Although I own several Nerdum's books and have read a fair amount about him... there is very little in the sources about his techniques. Painters, the accomplished ones seldom talk about how they do what they do, it seems...For that reason, for now, I am including quoted comments as few as they are to explain what and how Nerdrum painted. The words are poetic and only direct quotes can fairly illustrate what he means. As I and others find more sources content can be added to fill out areas that are for now pretty scant.(olive (talk) 02:33, 15 May 2010 (UTC))

Here I have begun a little list of references, with translations of titles, &c.

Accusativen hos Olsson (talk) 23:13, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Updated link.

Accusativen hos Olsson (talk) 03:32, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Refs

The reference section on this article is a bit of a mess. I'm working on it slowly but surely. Help welcome.(olive (talk) 03:22, 15 May 2010 (UTC))

Place of birth

I tried to add Nerdrum's place of birth, Helsingborg, but I couldn't due to some stupid template.

Accusativen hos Olsson (talk) 21:39, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, EPadmirateur!

Accusativen hos Olsson (talk) 11:16, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Nerdrum's full name

His full name (as per taxation records) is Odd Olaf Nerdrum. Again, I don't know how to add this.

Accusativen hos Olsson (talk) 22:33, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

This is not a definitive source... That is, we assume the 1944-birth-date Nerdrum, is the Odd Nerdrum we are talking about, but we don't have a source that says that. While primary sources can be fine to use in regards to the subject of themselves, they have to be used with care . In this case we have a primary source, a first concern, then the source does not explitcitley state this is the Odd Nerdrum. We can assume it is, but that's probably not good enough for Wikipedia. I don't see a WP:RS where Nerdum's second name is used, even in the biography on his own website where he has oversight. All in all, unless we can find another RS source that uses this second name it probably best to leave it out.(olive (talk) 00:04, 27 February 2011 (UTC))

Norsk biografisk leksikon (NBL).

Accusativen hos Olsson (talk) 19:08, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Is this source a dictionary? Because this is an Englishh Wikipedia an English source would be best, but if this source is a dictionary it might be an acceptable source for this kind of information... As a thought, you might want to write an article on Odd Nerdrum concurrent with this one in Norwegian Wikipedia.(olive (talk) 21:07, 27 February 2011 (UTC))

It's the online version of a signed article in Norsk biografisk leksikon, the standard Norwegian biographic dictionary.

Accusativen hos Olsson (talk) 03:06, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm not competent to compose in Norwegian, although I do sporadic edits in the two Norwegian wikis, noWP and nnWP. But I hope I'll have time to write major updates to the Swedish article.

Accusativen hos Olsson (talk) 03:20, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Rembrandt's The Conspiracy of Claudius Civilis and Simeon in the Temple in the National Museum of Fine Arts, Stockholm

The Rembrandt paintings in the National Museum of Fine Arts, Stockholm, that inspired Nerdrum at age 18 are The Conspiracy of Claudius Civilis (see also here) and Simeon in the Temple. "Simon" in the newspaper article is a grotesque mistake for Simeon. (One would expext Nunc dimittis to be well known.)

There is some confusion as to the English title of the Simeon in Stockholm (see also here). The Swedish title used by Nationalmuseum is Simeon i templet, that is, Simeon in the Temple. The Simeon in Stockholm should not be confused with Rembranth's two early paintings—sometimes also referred to as Simeon in the Temple—the Simeon in Hamburg from 1628 (see also here) and the Simeon in the Hauge from 1631 (see also here).

The Stockholm Simeon in the Temple is the painting that Nerdrum is seen watching in the photo in the article (turning his back on the camera, since he would have it no other way). This is Rembrandt's last painting, found unfinished on his easel after his death. (The Conspiracy of Claudius Civilis is in the right hand corner of the photo.)

I have edited the material from the Dagbladet article. I have also edited the footnote, so that it links to the article and not to Google Translate. At a later stage, it would be good to replace or supplement this newspaper article (that even manages to confuse Simeon with Simon) with the original four-page article in Kunst, the art magazine on which the newspaper article is based. (See photo of the magazine's front cover in the article.)

Accusativen hos Olsson (talk) 17:54, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

I edited a little per the Vine source and left out the Simeon In The Temple reference since neither Vine or Nerdrum's own site mentions the painting. The sourcing in the article is poor and needs a lot of work, and we need more content. Its nice to have someone else working on this article. I'd started but there's a lot to be done.(olive (talk) 21:20, 27 February 2011 (UTC))

Translations

As I see it, Google Translate should not be relied on, nor linked to. If translations from Norwegian are needed, please just bring this up on this page or on my talk page, and I'll be glad to help, time allowing.

Accusativen hos Olsson (talk) 18:30, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

I agree that online translators are not particularly accurate...But I'd like to check and make sure a translation by an editor is considered reliable. I think there are enough sources in English that we could stick with those for the most part on the English Wikipedia.(olive (talk) 21:14, 27 February 2011 (UTC))

Thanks for your generous offer to translate. I've asked for input here to make sure such translations would be considered reliable by the community before you go to the trouble of translating any of the sources.(olive (talk) 21:45, 27 February 2011 (UTC))

Should have checked myself. WP:NOENG describes best practices for translation, and.... so pleased to have a translator available. (olive (talk) 18:46, 28 February 2011 (UTC))

Business relationship with The Nerdrum Institute

http://www.dagbladet.no/2010/05/11/kultur/kunst/odd_nerdrum/11674491/

The article should probably mention the business relationsip between The Nerdrum Institute and Odd Nerdrum.

(My understanding is that they currently hold the rights to sell his forthcoming paintings, to some degree.)--Hirzflag (talk) 09:32, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

External links

This link - Nerdrum bløffer, has info about his painting at Smithsonians Hirschhorn Museum, and e-mail from his manager in US, Martina Hamilton to newspaper Verdens Gang.--85.165.231.200 (talk) 11:53, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Summary (not a good one) of article with heading "Nerdrum is lying.": Nerdrum says that the Norwegian Ministry of Foreign Affairs prevented his paintings from being exhibited in the National Gallery of Art in Washington DC. This is wrong according to both the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Nerdrum's American manager — Nerdrum was represented at a exhibition there, and he was present to see the exhibition.

Accusativen hos Olsson (talk) 04:24, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Nerdrum's Spring, 1977. in Hirshhorn Museum and Sculpture Garden.

Accusativen hos Olsson (talk) 04:44, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Overlap between sections Artistic study and Early work 1964-1982

There is some unnecessary overlap here. No need to tell the story about the Rembrandt in Stockholm twice. Perhaps it would be good to have a new section on Early influences or the like.

Accusativen hos Olsson (talk) 20:37, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Some desiderata

• Nerdrums legal situation. An update is needed. What about the appeal?
• Tourette's syndrome. This is encyclopedically relevant, and sources are logio legio. Nerdrum has often referred to his Tourette's as seminal to his work and important for understanding him. Further, his diagnosis was adduced by his defence during his 2011 trial.
• Major individual works by Nerdrum.
• Conflicts and disputes. Nerdrum as a provocateur and enfant terrible.

Accusativen hos Olsson (talk) 04:05, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

I'd add:

• We need more on Kitsch

• The refs need to be cleaned up.

I'm finally going to be able to work on this in the next days.(olive (talk) 18:36, 14 February 2012 (UTC))

Good! The very first reference is perhaps debateable—it's from a gallery that sells Nerdrum's paintings. I doubt that the phrase "Nerdrum creates six to eight paintings per year" is encyclopedically relevant—that sounds lika a salesman's information to me.

Accusativen hos Olsson (talk) 20:54, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Actually its highly relevant information, since it indicates the level of productivity of the artist. So I'd like to leave the information in place. Galleries which represent artist's are not in the same category as retail stores especially with a big name artist. If you want to remove this information just let me know, I'm not attached to it, although I do think its useful information.(olive (talk) 00:37, 9 March 2012 (UTC))

• Ref clean up in process.(olive (talk) 18:36, 9 March 2012 (UTC))

Misunderstanding on removal of reference

The reference added is not the ref I removed. I removed a repetition of a reference [!18] which had been used twice one sentence after another. Since I don't speak Norwegian I had no way of knowing that reference was wronlgy used and had to trust whoever had added that reference. We should if at all possible add an English translation of the Norwegian source since this is an English Wikipedia. Thanks for adding the correct reference.(olive (talk) 14:41, 23 April 2012 (UTC))

It looks to me as if when I reformatted the refs I inadvertently reformatted the wrong ref thus the repetition.(olive (talk) 14:55, 23 April 2012 (UTC))

OK! As I wrote on your home talk page:

No problem! Added by me here. Removed, it seems, by you here. True, translations into English are of course preferable. Would that hours were less scarce...

Accusativen hos Olsson (talk) 22:58, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Parked content until sources found

Under "Reviews" "There are more men than women here, but sexual pairing seems to occur only in death (or a sleep resembling death). Which is not to say desire is nowhere present. It is everywhere. If anything makes these pictures compelling, it's their consistent fascination with the human body. The images—of paired corpses, madmen, men in pain, a man without eyes—may be frightful and abhorrent, but every limb and torso is lovingly rendered. Pale, muscular, sexual, the figures are painted so that one must take them seriously—in much the same way that it is music that grounds the otherwise bizarre stage spectacles of Wagnerian opera."

• Odd Nerdrum by Justin Spring, part of a review first published in Artforum International, April 1, 1993

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Sources and thanks for the tag

I happen to know this content well enough to know that everything is from Reliable Sources. I'll add those sources in the next few days. I'm going to remove the tag so that some one doesn't come along and remove the content thinking it didn't come from RS which would make my job more difficult. To be honest I have no idea why I didn't notice that the refs were not included and wonder if they were mistakenly removed at some time. Anyway, I'll fix this. I have the books and can add the refs.(Littleolive oil (talk) 01:29, 11 May 2018 (UTC))

Parked here until source is added

I have the source for this but can't add tonight .... I'll add tomorrow.

• Parked content

Rembrandt and Caravaggio are primary influences on Nerdrum's work, while secondary influences include Masaccio, Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo, Titian, and the less obvious influences, according to Vine and either mentioned by Nerdrum himself or other critics, that include Pieter Bruegel the Elder, Goya, Chardin, Millet, as well the even less apparent Henry Fuseli, Caspar David Friedrich, Ferdinand Hodler, Edvard Munch, Käthe Kollwitz, Salvador Dalí, Chaim Soutine and Lars Hertervig.

Littleolive oil (talk) 03:30, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Nerdrum was never Swedish

Europe is different from the US in a few respects. If you are born in the US you are American born. This is not so - and was not so in 1944 - in Sweden. If you were born in Sweden and your parents were Norwegian nationals, you were Norwegian born, not Swedish born. And .... the occupation of Norway by the Germans did not mean that Norwegian nationals no longer existed. --Saidmann (talk) 17:17, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Without fully following what you're saying above, have I sown confusion by writing "Swedish-born" where I should have written "Sweden-born"? -Lopifalko (talk) 18:04, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

My edit summary was not meant to explain Nerdrum's birth place; it was a very short history of his birth. I've changed the article to reflect the concern. Littleolive oil (talk) 20:40, 14 October 2020 (UTC)