Talk:Nothing but the Truth

Requested move 28 November 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move all as proposed. There is a clear consensus that the preposition "but" should not be capitalized, regardless of what style our sources use. (non-admin closure) Bradv 22:27, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

---

• Nothing But the Truth → Nothing but the Truth
• Nothing But the Truth (1929 film) → Nothing but the Truth (1929 film)
• Nothing But the Truth (UK game show) → Nothing but the Truth (UK game show)
• Nothing But the Truth (Son Seals album) → Nothing but the Truth (Son Seals album)
• Nothing But the Truth (Southern Sons album) → Nothing but the Truth (Southern Sons album)

– Must follow the RM discussion result from Talk:Nothing but the Truth (1941 film). The word "but" is not that significant to make an emotion about... Well, I lost much interest in letter casings due to... the "Like" fiasco. However, consistency is important. I see some 'But's but other 'but's; consistency is needed. As for MOS:CT, it might or might not enforce lowercasing "but", especially when it's used as either a coordinating conjunction or short-worded preposition. However, other non-Wikipedia guidelines, like Chicago, say lowercase "but". We can follow those outside guidelines if MOS:CT or WP:NCCAPS is not enough. George Ho (talk) 20:28, 28 November 2016 (UTC) --Relisting. Bradv 21:40, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• {added:Support the 1929 film fix), Oppose, per original and real-world names of the original works of art. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and should reflect the world accurately. If a film, book, or other named work of art capitalizes a word then the name of that artwork should add the most weight to the rendition of its article name on the world's leading encyclopedia. We've possibly gone way off track on this, and have time-after-time renamed artworks. I have no idea why so many editors support this concept. Randy Kryn 13:35, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Randy, I think you've argued elsewhere to follow film title cards. If you look at Nothing But the Truth (1929 film) (at archive), it has lowercase "but". I haven't checked the others; have you? Dicklyon (talk) 00:39, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

And the Son Seals album seems to be more commonly lowercase in sources; it's hard to guess what they intended, from the all-caps cover art. Dicklyon (talk) 01:17, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Meant to get back to this and forgot, apologies to George Ho. The 1929 film does seem to be lower-cased, thanks. It seems all of these will pass regardless of objections, although I still think it's in Wikipedia's interest to label real-world named works of art exactly as named regardless of clumsy sourcing by reporters or house styling one-size-fits-all preferences. The Stephen King book Four Past Midnight is, for example, now misnamed and/or maimed to read Four past Midnight which takes the air right out of it. Randy Kryn 14:21, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

• Support per MOS:CT. The word but is a preposition in this title, and should thus be lowercased according to the Wikipedia house style. How the title is capitalized elsewhere is irrelevant. For an encyclopedia it is important to follow a style guide in order to achieve internal consistency. Darkday (talk) 23:39, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
• Support per MOS:CT unless someone can come up with an interpretation of MOS:CT that supports the current form. —BarrelProof (talk) 18:57, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
• Support – MOS:CT specifically lists but as a word that should be lowercase in composition titles. Dicklyon (talk) 00:36, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

To Randy Kryn:

• 1929 film: "but" – [1][2](says "1931", but it's the same film)[3][4]; "But" – [5]
• Jerry Springer one: "But" – [6][7][8][9][10]; not yet on "but"
• Son Seals album: "but" - [11][12][13]; But - [14][15][16]

will add more. George Ho (talk) 09:01, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

• Southern Sons album: "but" - iTunes; "But" - [17][18]

Very little sources mention this album. I'll probably find more. George Ho (talk) 20:08, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

The caps links for the Southern Son album also capitalize "The"; probably there's no reason for us to pay much attention to those, since even the album cover doesn't go that far. Dicklyon (talk) 06:16, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.