Talk:Natalia Dyer

Date of birth

Resolved

She was born in 1997 (not in 1995) according to Grazia and other sources. --Jaqen (talk) 15:55, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

Also, Charlie Heaton wished her "Happy 21st birthday!" yesterday (primary source, secondary source). And here are other sources claiming she was 19 in 2016: Bustle, Romper, Teen Vogue. Since it seems that the best source for 1995 is an old tweet by Finn Wolfhard I've edited the article. --Jaqen (talk) 11:56, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

@Jaqen: According to this 2019 article from Refinery29, she is 24 years old. Is Refinery29 a reliable source? Hitcher vs. Candyman (talk) 19:13, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

I have provided sources from Capital and United Press International that confirm her date of birth to be January 13, 1997. Hitcher vs. Candyman (talk) 01:43, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

I'm not necessarily disputing the 1997 date (nor am I claiming that 1995 is correct), but I'm skeptical of both the CapitalFM and UPI links. Neither seem like definitive write-ups or interviews, and instead are likely collections found online -- for all we know, they could have found that on Wikipedia. The Refinery29 article, however, includes an interview with Dyer. Regardless, we're still short of an actual confirmed DOB. – Broccoli & Coffee ^{(Oh hai)} 01:50, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

You're absolutely correct, Broccoli and Coffee. I've just come across another source from UPI dated 2018; this time, it lists her year of birth as 1995. Hitcher vs. Candyman (talk) 02:12, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

I would like to ping @Muzilon: because we've had a similar discussion at Talk:Paul Winfield#Birth year. What do you suggest? Hitcher vs. Candyman (talk) 02:39, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

Maybe add an endnote here mentioning that sources differ as to her year of birth? Cf. Lee Grant. Muzilon (talk) 05:32, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

Contrary to my previous statements, I’m now in favor with Broccoli and Coffee’s valid argument that Dyer was born 1995 since the Refinery29 source provides an interview with Dyer. Hitcher vs. Candyman (talk) 15:40, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

I’ve also received word from Feminist, who told me at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Refinery29 that Refinery29 is “marginally reliable.” Hitcher vs. Candyman (talk) 15:48, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

According to this 2019 article from Seventeen (American magazine), Dyer is 24 years old. Hitcher vs. Candyman (talk) 21:05, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

According to this article from Harper’s Bazaar, Dyer was born on January 13, 1997. Hitcher vs. Candyman (talk) 19:16, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

I found another UPI source dated 2019 and titled “UPI Almanac for Sunday, Jan. 13, 2019”; once again Dyer’s year of birth is listed as 1997. Maybe Muzilon’s proposal is correct. What do you think Broccoli and Coffee? Hitcher vs. Candyman (talk) 19:24, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

I think lacking a definitive answer, an endnote sounds reasonable. I'll go ahead and add that now. Thanks – Broccoli & Coffee ^{(Oh hai)} 20:15, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

@Broccoli and Coffee: First off, thank you for adding the endnote. Second, are Wolfhand's tweet and Heaton's Instagram post necessary? I ask because other editors might misconstrue those as primary sources. Hitcher vs. Candyman (talk) 21:27, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Hitcher vs. Candyman, I had the same concern as you, but figured, at least initially, I'd add all of the sources previously discussed (either here or previously added to the page). I'm ok with removing them, but one other reason in particular to keep them: it appears that several of the sources actually base their 95 or 97 claim on either Heaton's and Wolfhand's post. So, the social media posts are either redundant, or most of the sources are just as unreliable. – Broccoli & Coffee ^{(Oh hai)} 22:01, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

I'm glad we're on the same page, Broccoli and Coffee. Since you mentioned "several of the sources actually base their 95 or 97 claim on either Heaton's and Wolfhand's post," that makes them secondary sources, which are acceptable. Since you're "ok" with removing Heaton's and Wolfhand's posts, I'm going to remove them just to be on the safe side. Hitcher vs. Candyman (talk) 22:12, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Oh my God, why do you all keep insisting, SHE SAID IT HERSELF SHE'S 24. PERIOD. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 181.161.36.198 (talk) 23:06, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

I'm afraid a simple "ipse dixit" isn't always sufficient. See Age_fabrication#In_the_entertainment_industry. So, I agree with the other editors who supported adding an endnote describing the WP:Conflicting sources. Muzilon (talk) 23:46, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Even if Refinery29 says that said it herself, and they cite Wikipedia as being incorrect for '97 it doesn't really make sense. If you Google her age every single website says 1997 (7+ pages worth of website results). That's not just 'one little typo' on Wikipedia. Even IMDB says she got her start in 2009 at the age of 12. It's 99% chance that she was born in '97. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Magnolia54 (talk • contribs) 11:48, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

The claim made by Refinery29 doesn’t necessarily make it an ipse dixit, based on how the claim is written. To quote Refinery29, “yes, she is 24, no matter what lies Wikipedia says.” Basically, Refinery29 is implying that Dyer is 24 years old, making 1995 her year of birth. The claim is an implication, not a confirmation of Dyer saying so herself that she’s 24 year old; at least that’s how I interpreted it. I could be wrong about this and I’m not ashamed to admit it. Hitcher vs. Candyman (talk) 21:06, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

I’ve also come across two sources dated 2018 from The Christian Post and WHAS-TV, and they both mention Dyer celebrating her 21st birthday that year, making 1997 her year of birth. I’ve added these sources to the endnote. Hitcher vs. Candyman (talk) 21:28, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Here’s something worth of interest: according to this source from KSAT-TV dated January 13, 2018, Dyer “turned 23” and yet the source referenced Charlie Heaton’s Instagram post wishing her a “Happy 21st birthday.” Comments? Hitcher vs. Candyman (talk) 21:42, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Technically an Instagram post wouldn't be seen as a reputable source. But come on, he's her boyfriend and would definitely know her age. And IMDB is a pretty reliable source as well. I don't know why 1995 is suddenly coming out of the blue, but a local TV channel and a random pop culture website seem pretty irrelevant compared to the larger majority of sources that I said were 7+ pages (stating 1997) in my previous post. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Magnolia54 (talk • contribs) 16:36, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

IMDb is not considered a reliable source for Wikipedia, especially when it concerns a biography of a living person. In this case, there are conflicting sources that indicate 1997 and 1995. Because Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, accuracy is critical (especially with BLPs), and conjecture is highly discouraged. Thus, But come on, he's her boyfriend and would definitely know her age doesn't quite meet the standard of proof necessary. – Broccoli & Coffee ^{(Oh hai)} 16:44, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

I'm confused as to what Wikipedia defines as a credible source (Refinery29 vs IMDB?). (Obviously not Instagram, I wasn't being completely serious on that one, just stating something). It seems from the above statements that there are too many conflicting variables. It seems we won't find a true source unless someone cites an article from Google Scholar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Magnolia54 (talk • contribs)

I understand your confusion. I'm going to post some helpful links to your talk page that can help clarify a lot of this information for newcomers. – Broccoli & Coffee ^{(Oh hai)} 19:53, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

I apologize for forgetting to mention this yesterday but I found another 2018 secondary source from The Christian Post referencing Heaton’s Instagram post wishing Dyer a “Happy 21st birthday.” Hitcher vs. Candyman (talk) 21:05, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Also, I found three additional sources suggesting the 1997 claim:

• According to a 2019 Screen Rant source: Natalia Dyer is 22 years old.

• According to a 2019 Thrillist source: Age: 22 (DOB: January 13, 1997)

• And according to a 2018 source from Entertainment Tonight: The 21-year-old actress...

I’m gonna add these sources to the endnote. Please note that the Entertainment Tonight source does reference the aforementioned Instagram post from Charlie Heaton. Hitcher vs. Candyman (talk) 21:22, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

@Broccoli and Coffee, Magnolia54, and Muzilon: I found this source from Clash (magazine). What’s interesting about this particular source is that it’s dated February 19, 2018 and yet it lists her age as 20. If you do the math: 2018 minus 20 equals 1998. I admit this may be original research, which I did not add this to the end note. Comments? Hitcher vs. Candyman (talk) 22:02, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

I'm going to throw this interview with Dyer from Hunger into the mix as well. This states her age as 24. I'm not familiar with the site and its general reliability, but two things that lend it some credibility are that it's another interview with Dyer, and Dyer herself linked to the interview on her Instagram page.

Frankly, I think most or all of the sites claiming she's 22 stem from that same Charlie Heaton Instagram post. I'm not suggesting there's enough to "decide" 1995 and remove the endnote, but after all of these sources that have been dug up over the past week-plus, 1995 seems like the most likely year to me. – Broccoli & Coffee ^{(Oh hai)} 22:24, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Eh, I gotta mixed a feeling about the Hunger source because on one hand, Hunger doesn’t seem to have its own article on Wikipedia, and on the other hand, the source is an official interview with Dyer. I’ll support this source only because it’s an official interview. Hitcher vs. Candyman (talk) 22:40, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

And I agree with you Broccoli and Coffee, I too do believe she was born in 1995. Therefore, I’m going to request a resolution at WP:DRN if that’s all right with you. Hitcher vs. Candyman (talk) 22:58, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

For the record, here's a birth notice from The Tennessean newspaper, published 4th February 1995: "DYER, Allen Miles and Karen Lea have named their daughter, born Jan. 13 at Vanderbilt Hospital, Natalia Danielle Dyer". That tallies with the details about her parents' names given on BHW, an admittedly unreliable celebrity-gossip site. (Although BHW itself also gives a 1997 birthdate.) Muzilon (talk) 23:41, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Muzilon YOU'RE A GENIUS! :D Hitcher vs. Candyman (talk) 00:07, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Well done indeed, Muzilon. I support making the more formal change to the article if you all do. – Broccoli & Coffee ^{(Oh hai)} 01:12, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

I'm completely in favor 100%, Broccoli and Coffee. I'm gonna leave a message at WP:DRN stating to disregard the notice. Unless there's any objections, this discussion is officially resolved. Hitcher vs. Candyman (talk) 01:15, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

You're welcome. I suppose for the sake of completeness we could leave an endnote to the effect that "Some sources state 1997 but this is contradicted by the balance of evidence" or something like that. I don't have strong feelings about it, however. It has to be said she looks closer to nine than seven in this photo of her in a 2004 stage production of To Kill a Mockingbird. Muzilon (talk) 02:07, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Before I saw this comment, Muzilon, I added a comment back into the article to mention the discussion here. Hopefully that will suffice, though I still expect there to be attempts at changing it. I'm fine with adding an endnote too, though. – Broccoli & Coffee ^{(Oh hai)} 02:57, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Oh, and The Tennessean also mentions she was eight years old when she appeared in that 2004 production of Mockingbird.[1] And this source says she was 14 years old in April 2010.[2] These also support the 1995 birth year. Muzilon (talk) 04:03, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

*sigh* Since certain editors are still tinkering with the birth year, I have added an endnote stating that the weight of evidence points to 1995. Muzilon (talk) 23:08, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

January 2020: Elle magazine mentions she just celebrated her 25th birthday. Further evidence of the 1995 birth year. Muzilon (talk) 01:11, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

It seems that United Press International has finally listed 1995 as the correct year of her birth. Hitcher vs. Candyman (talk) 21:41, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

Despite the page protection, we are still getting IP editors trying to cite unreliable sources like Charlie Heaton's Instagram post apparently wishing her a "Happy 21st Birthday" back in 2018, and tabloids like TeenVogue that merely rehashed his Instagram post. No, Instagram is not considered a WP:RELIABLE source per WP:UGC. (Interestingly, someone has commented there that the "21st" birthday reference was actually a "private joke" between Heaton and Dyer.[3]) Muzilon (talk) 04:43, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

If it helps, Dyer herself admitted in an interview with the Hollywood Reporter: "Yeah, it’s funny because even though I was born in ‘95, I definitely had Dunkaroos and a Nokia phone." The Film Creator (talk) 22:49, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 May 2018

Natalia is dating actor Charlie Heaton since 2017 Karo Styles (talk) 19:08, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. L293D (☎ • ✎) 19:42, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Her birthyear

Why is her birthyear 1995? I thought it was 1997! DynastiNoble (talk) 03:17, 30 August 2019 (UTC)!

@DynastiNoble: See the exhaustive discussion above. A contemporary newspaper birth notice says 1995.[4] Muzilon (talk) 03:30, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

@Assembled1801: Ditto and likewise. Muzilon (talk) 04:00, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

If it helps, Dyer herself admitted in an interview with the Hollywood Reporter: "Yeah, it’s funny because even though I was born in ‘95, I definitely had Dunkaroos and a Nokia phone." The Film Creator (talk) 22:46, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

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