Talk:Montenegrin National Army

Issue with scope

Milazzo, p. 82 also refers to the detachments of Stanisic in Montenegro in 1942 as the Montenegrin National Army. Per this. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 22:20, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Do you want to say that Tomasevich and other sources were wrong when about the name of this unit? Can you please clarify what is your point here? --Antidiskriminator (talk) 16:21, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

No, I did not say that Tomasevich was wrong. Milazzo refers to an organisation called the Montenegrin National Army commanded by Stansic in 1942 on p.82. This article you have created is apparently about the one of that name created by Drljevic (presumably in 1945) per Tomasevich. Do you plan to also cover the Stanisic one in this article, or only the Drljevic one? They appear to be completely different in nature, one in Montenegro and one outside of it. So, the implication I take away from the Milazzo information is that there will probably need to be two articles, and this one will perhaps need to be retitled Montenegrin National Army (1945) unless you have a source that indicates it existed before 1945, in which case Montenegrin National Army (1944–45) might be the best title. Thoughts? Peacemaker67 (send... over) 01:34, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Interesting position:

• You think that in case of this article one source you presented is enough to rename this article.
• On the other hand, in case of Skanderbeg (military unit) you proposed a deletion although its text was cited with 12 sources.

Can you present evidence that army commanded by Stanisic is notable enough to affect the name of this article? What weapons did they have, exactly? Were they German, Yugoslav, Italian rifles or machine guns? Did they have any medium or heavy weapons? Artillery? Mortars? What type were they? Without it, I can't see any connection except that both articles being created by me and proposed for deletion/renaming by you soon after their creation. Is it a coincidence? --Antidiskriminator (talk) 23:38, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

It is not renaming, it is sensible disambiguation when there clearly is another unit with the exact same name. The rest is WP:OTHERSTUFF. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 23:45, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Whether it is a "sensible disambiguation" or renaming, will you please be so kind to reply to my questions?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 00:01, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

This is a disambiguation discussion, not a deletion one, and I will not be discussing other articles or speculation here. The Army commanded by Stanisic (as well as this one) is also mentioned in Thomas and Mikulan p. 23, where they state it consisted of six battalions. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 00:56, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Will you please be so kind to reply to my questions? They are all directly related to this article.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 07:46, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

I don't see how they are relevant to this discussion. So, no. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 08:35, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Will you please be so kind to present a quote from Thomas and Mikulan p. 23?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 08:37, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Lots of similarities to Pajovic. "In February 1942, Colonel Bajo Stanisic formed a Nationalist National Army of Montenegro and Herzegovina in six battalions with some Nationalist Chetnik battalions. In July 1942, the Montenegrin National Troops were established as Italian auxiliaries, with the 1,700-strong separatist Lovcen Brigade, the 1,500-strong Zeta Flying Detachment and 1,500 Chetniks in the Lim-Sandzak Flying Detachment, leaving the new Chetnik Commander, Blazo Djukanovic, with 17,300 Chetniks and 5,000 nationalists." Then further down, "In December (1943), Major Jovo Djukanovic reformed the Chetnik-nationalist-separatist Montenegrin National Troops, 7,000 strong, it was badly mauled by the Partisans in March 1944." Peacemaker67 (send... over) 08:54, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

You explained your position: "there clearly is another unit with the exact same name." (diff) The quote you presented reveals that the name of the unit they described was not "the exact same name" as Montenegrin National Army. Please do not misinterpret sources in future. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 10:32, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

It is clearly named the "Montenegrin National Army" by Milazzo on p.82. The translations by Thomas and Mikulan as "Nationalist National Army of Montenegro and Herzegovina" and "Montenegrin National Troops" is clearly referring to the same entity, as it clearly relates to the forces of Stanisic in early 1942 and its successors. It so extremely unlikely as to be laughable that Stanisic created two different "Armies" in early 1942, this is reinforced by the fact that Milazzo states that "he (Stansisic) even claimed to be the Chetnik commander for Herzegovina as well as Montenegro". Thomas and Mikulan are clearly referring to the same entity as Milazzo, whether their translation is exactly the same or not. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 10:48, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

You are caught red handed. Instead to apologize because of apparent source misinterpretation, you dig yourself even deeper with your "translation" hypothesis and "laughable" straw man fallacy. I advise you to drop the stick.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 10:55, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Ah, no, old chap. It is you that fail to comprehend English. No prob, I'll RM and see what the community thinks. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 10:58, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Please don't call me "old chap". I already politely asked you more than once to stop with this kind of behavior.

@Peacemaker67: did you forget to RM this article?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 09:01, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

@Peacemaker67: did you forget to RM this article?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 09:23, 17 May 2014 (UTC)