Talk:Sikh Confederacy

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Unsourced edits

There have been repeated (to date 7) insertions, without explanation, of unsourced material by 24.52.197.134 (talk) despite requests on the IP's talk page to supply a source.

If the IP can find a reliable source that supports his/her change of the text, the edits may be accepted. However the repeated insertions without explanation and the IP's refusal or inability to provide a source are, at best, edit warring and possibly a deliberate attempt to damage Wikipedia (vandalism). Apuldram (talk) 22:25, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

Since I wrote that and warned the IP, the IP has repeated its unexplained unsourced change of material, contradicting sourced material and a link to another article. For example, in the Shaheedan Misl, the IP replaced Sandhu Jat by Rajput. The linked article about the founder of the misl, Baba Deep Singh, states clearly that he was a Sandhu Jat Sikh.
I have reverted the change. Apuldram (talk) 17:56, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

Repeated unsourced edits

Hello, Abh9850, you can discuss the matter here before adding unsourced material in the article. The article is quite well-sourced and maintained to the last best version of wiki admins. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.253.165.236 (talk) 20:05, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

No, the edit is unsourced. You mentioned Hari Ram Gupta saying he is a Rathore, this is false. Check here– https://books.google.co.in/books?id=S1wwAQAAIAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=gulaba

"The founder of this misl was Gulaba Khatri"

Further, – Dhawan, Purnima (2011). When Sparrows Became Hawks, The Making of the Sikh Warrior Tradition, 1699–1799. Oxford University Press. ISBN 978-0-19-975655-1. on page 62, table 2 calls Gulaba a Khatri Misl Leader of Dallewalia Misl

Furthermore, Singh, Surinder Pal (2009). History Of Sikh Misls. p. 149 also says the same.

In addition, http://apnaorg.com/books/english/history-princep-1/book.php?fldr=book page 198 here does not even mention Rathore Rajput or Gulaba once. Unsourced again.

He is not called a Rathore even once, the claim is entirely unsourced and you're engaging in vandalism. Any further edits will lead to your account being reported. I will revert the edit to the sourced version unless you can provide other sources. I have linked the specific page in Hari Ram Gupta's Book, there is not even a mention of "Rathore" in the entire book. Search it for yourself. https://books.google.co.in/books?id=S1wwAQAAIAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=rathore

Abh9850 (talk) 20:37, 27 September 2020 (UTC) (talk)

Hello Abh9850, I am pasting the link of the book here by renowned Sikh historian Hari Ram Gupta-

https://archive.org/details/HistoryOfTheSikhsVol.IvTheSikhCommonwealthOrRiseAndFallOfSikh

You can go to page number 65 and line number 2. It’s clearly mentioned the Dallewalia Misl founder’s Full name as “Gulab Singh Rathor”. Also renowned Indologist Lepel Griffin mentions the founders full name as “Gulab Singh Rathor”. If need be that link of book can also be pasted. Khatri in punjabi and Prakrit language is the alternate word for Kshatriya. Rathores are well known Rajput/Kshatriya class of Indian subcontinent. So dear Abh9850, kindly check the references properly before reverting properly sourced information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.253.165.236 (talk) 21:27, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Here is all the evidence from the book you linked listed out:

Page 64: "The founder of this Misl was Gulaba Khatri, son of Sharada Ram" https://archive.org/details/HistoryOfTheSikhsVol.IvTheSikhCommonwealthOrRiseAndFallOfSikh/page/n63/mode/2up

Page 26: "Eight misls were founded by Jats, one by a Khatri, one by a Kalal, one by a carpenter" https://archive.org/details/HistoryOfTheSikhsVol.IvTheSikhCommonwealthOrRiseAndFallOfSikh/page/n25/mode/2up

There is zero mention of a "Rajput" by the name of Gulaba in this entire book. Abh9850 (talk) 21:48, 27 September 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abh9850 (talk • contribs)

Please discuss on talk page & don’t vandalise the article.

https://archive.org/details/HistoryOfTheSikhsVol.IvTheSikhCommonwealthOrRiseAndFallOfSikh,

Read this link at page number 65 line number 2, you will find the founder’s full name as “GULAB SINGH RATHOR” . Read the article Rathore, Rathore/Rathor is well known Rajput surname. What Ohnoitsjamie as retained is well sourced and right. Kindly read the references properly before disruption.

The last version by Ohnoitsjamie is properly sourced, so please refrain from repeated vandalism — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.253.165.236 (talk) 23:05, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Abh9850 is editing in good faith and is not vandalizing the article. —C.Fred (talk) 23:07, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

I have only tried to put out the information in the sources to no avail, the person 124.253.165.236 (talk) refuses to argue in good faith, despite repeated long discussions. Please suggest a solution. C.Fred Abh9850 (talk) 23:14, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

@Abh9850: Edit warring is not a solution. —C.Fred (talk) 23:16, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Ok, I understand. Shall some administrator be involved to sort out the dispute and prevent unsourced edits? I am not aware how to contact one. Thanks Abh9850 (talk) 23:20, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

@Abh9850: You've both been warned about edit warring. Any further reverts will result in either blocks or page protection. As far as help with resolving the dispute, see WP:Third opinion or WP:Requests for comment. —C.Fred (talk) 23:23, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Ok, I will try to look into that for resolving it. Thanks. Abh9850 (talk) 23:29, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Respected admins, the reference of book by renowned Sikh historian Hari Ram Gupta mentions founder’s full name as GULAB SINGH RATHOR.

https://archive.org/details/HistoryOfTheSikhsVol.IvTheSikhCommonwealthOrRiseAndFallOfSikh

Kindly read chapter 3 page 65 line 2 for testifying. Also read Wikipedia article Rathore, Rathore and Rathor are same thing. This article Misl from many years or months mentioned the founder’s full name as GULAB SINGH RATHORE and founding clan as RATHORE. Until from past 3-4 days editor named Abh9850 is removing the founder’s full name. Name GULAB SINGH RATHORE and founding clan RATHORE was retained by all Wikipedia admins across all these years. My only concern is to retain the sourced contents.

I hope Wikipedia will stand on side of TRUTH

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.253.165.236 (talk) 23:39, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

• I have rolled back to the last stable version, from 3 September, until this matter is resolved by discussion here. —C.Fred (talk) 23:50, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Clarification on Misl Territory/Current Area

It seems some (not all) places happen to be under multiple misls. For example: Amritsar is currently listed as the capital of Bhangi Misl, but also included in "Misl Period Territory by 1759" & "Corresponding Current Area" for Singhpuria Misl. Is this inaccurate or is it due to territorial changes? Further sources need to be listed, as well as any clarifications on territorial changes. Or, if it is indeed that certain places were simultaneously under the the rule of multiple misls, this should be duly noted. JazzyBsolarjatt (talk) 22:46, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 22 March 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Moved as proposed. BD2412 T 16:34, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

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Misl → Sikh Confederacy – Misl is the native name and also misleading as this article is about the Sikh Confederacy but the name of the article is Misl (There were twelve Misls or autonomous states within the Sikh Confederacy, like Swiss cantons) It's like using Canton instead of Swiss Confederation. WP:COMMONNAME Shubhdeep Sandhu (talk) 10:45, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

support -- 웬디러비/Wendy Lovey (talk) 05:32, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

I am in favour of this statement @Shubhdeep Sandhu Truthfindervert (talk) 05:00, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

References

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Renaming the article to "Sikh Misls"?

The canonical name for these Sikh led territories should be "Misl" and the term "Confederacy" was largely used in academia to describe these misls as a collective after the fact.

Therefore, I wanted to inquire if it would be possible to rename the title of the article to "Sikh Misls" to reflect the more accurate name.

AnyBurro9312 (talk) 04:46, 7 April 2024 (UTC)