Talk:Mary Corona Wirfs
Latest comment: 7 months ago by Figureskatingfan in topic Article title
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 | A fact from Mary Corona Wirfs appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 21 September 2023 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
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Did you know nomination edit
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Vaticidalprophet (talk) 15:08, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
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... that Mother Mary Corona, motivated by the ban of Catholic college students at secular institutions, was instrumental in the training of teachers? Source: "Grounds The Changing Face of Alverno: The Land". Alverno College Library.- ALT1: ... that Mother Mary Corona served as Superior General of the School Sisters of St. Francis from 1948 to 1960? Source: Stiefermann, Barbaralie A. (2018). Mother M. Corona: Her Life and Legacy. Mukwonago, Wisconsin: Nico 11 Publishing & Design. ISBN 1945907398, p. 27
- ALT2: ... that even though Mother Mary Corona received no formal teacher training, she was was president of Alverno College in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, which trained teachers? Source: Stiefermann (2018), pp. 11—12, "Timeline of Alverno College History". Alverno College Library.
- Reviewed:
- Comment: Submitting for User:Winifredwhelan. This is the third article she's created, so she doesn't need to review another DYK.
Moved to mainspace by Winifredwhelan (talk). Nominated by Figureskatingfan (talk) at 17:24, 12 September 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Mother Mary Corona; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.
| General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy compliance:
- Adequate sourcing:
- Neutral:
- Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
Hook eligibility:
- Cited:
- Interesting:
| QPQ: Done. |
Overall: 
The article excessively relies on quotations, but since the DYK review does not entail a full policy review of an article like GAN, it will not prohibit this from passing. However, the "inflamed with an intense desire" quote in the lead cannot be said in wiki voice. It is not encyclopedic.
Neither the source provided nor the inline citation in the article supports the hook about a ban on Catholic students. Must be fixed. Ergo Sum 01:14, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
- User:Ergo Sum, thanks for the review. I've removed the quote in question and Win has reworded the info about the ban. I've also struck out the first hook and added an ALT hook. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 23:17, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
Ok, those problems have been resolved and the new hook checks out. Ergo Sum 23:34, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
Article title edit
@Winifredwhelan and Figureskatingfan: I can find very little information when entering "Mother Mary Corona" in a search engine, but plenty when entering "Corona Wirfs". Since this seems to be the WP:COMMONNAME, I suggest that the article be moved to this title, and the lead modified accordingly. "Mother" should also be avoided in the title as per MOS:HONORIFIC. — RAVENPVFF · talk · 10:02, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Ravenpuff, thanks for the input. I also did a google search and found three sources that use a different name for Mother Corona. I'm wondering, then, if it would be a good idea to rename her bio "Mary Corona Wirfs"? Another option would be to rename it "Catherine Wilhelmina Wirfs", which is her birth name. What would you recommend? Then I can go and move the article and rewrite the lead as per your suggestion. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:17, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Figureskatingfan: I'd suggest just "Corona Wirfs" in the title, since "Mary" doesn't seem to be used as often as "Corona". (Both should still be mentioned at the start of the lead, though.) "Catherine Wilhelmina Wirfs" doesn't bring up anything via a Google search, so that doesn't qualify as the most common name. In a similar vein, once the page is renamed we should refer to her by surname, according to standard encyclopedic practice, rather than by given (religious) name. — RAVENPVFF · talk · 17:45, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Ravenpuff, I've been thinking about this a bit more since my response, and have done some searching around in WP policies. I direct you to this one: WP:UCRN, which states, "Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources) as such names will usually best fit the five criteria listed above." M. Corona isn't as well-known as Mother Teresa, whose article uses her most commonly used name, but most of the sources about Corona uses "M. Corona" or "Mother Corona." That's why we went with the current title. As a result, I'd like to take back my original suggestions and continue using the current title for this bio. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 21:42, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Figureskatingfan Interestingly, UCRN (alias COMMONNAME) is the same reason why I would prefer adding the surname, as evidenced by the fact that Google doesn't produce good results when searching for "Mother Corona", but does for "Corona Wirfs". The case looks a little like Mother Teresa, but I'd argue that the comparison isn't quite as apt: virtually no sources use the name "Teresa Bojaxhiu", while "Corona Wirfs" is in use. I'd say that there just isn't enough sources to justify "Mother [Mary] Corona" being the overwhelmingly most common name – also bearing in mind that some uses of this name might just be how she's referred to after first being mentioned with her surname. An example of this would be the blurb of Stiefermann's biography: this would be a source in favor of using "Corona Wirfs", even if this is abbreviated to title and given name elsewhere in the publication (which practice, by the way, we aren't obliged to follow). Furthermore, using a surname would allow us to be WP:CONSISTENT with articles about other nuns (cf. e.g. Category:20th-century American Roman Catholic nuns). — RAVENPVFF · talk · 01:00, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Ravenpuff, M. Corona is an obscure but notable person, so she doesn't have many results in a google search. When you do a search of "Corona Wirfs," there are two results. (Unfortunately, there are more results about the Corona virus.) I argue that this isn't a strong enough reason to change her bio's title. You use the Stiefermann bio as a model, so my question is: What does she use? I don't have it handy, but @Winifredwhelan, the creator of this bio, does. Win, what say you? How does Stiefermann refer to M. Corona? I recommend that we go with the main source's convention. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 04:58, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Figureskatingfan: I would just briefly note here that you get more relevant results on Google by enclosing the search term in quotation marks – this brings up a few more sources, including some not specifically about M. Corona but which mention "Corona Wirfs" in passing. — RAVENPVFF · talk · 07:13, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Ravenpuff, "Mother M. Corona Wirfs" is the most often result when you do a more specific google search. Using your logic, then, a more relevant title would be that one. I still think, though, that it's better just to keep it simple and use the original title, since it seems to be the name she was known by, even if the sources refer to her as "Wirfs" the first time they talk about her. We still need to hear from Win if Stiefermann does this. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 03:30, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
- Corona was always known as "Mother Corona." The Book title is "Mother M. Corona." I would still prefer "Mother Mary Corona Wirfs," making it more encyclopedia-like. Winifredwhelan (talk) 19:58, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Ravenpuff and @Winifredwhelan, I agree with Win. If we go with her title, then I'll be happy to edit the bio accordingly. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 21:24, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Figureskatingfan: Winifredwhelan's suggestion is fine with me, except that I would remove "Mother" since WP:TITLESINTITLES is quite clear on that – the word isn't necessary for disambiguation and keeps the article title more concise. — RAVENPVFF · talk · 03:50, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Ravenpuff, so I've gone ahead and moved this article as per our discussion. I still need to revise the content to reflect the change, so please give me time to work on it in the next day or so. Thanks for the civil discussion. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 16:19, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Figureskatingfan: Winifredwhelan's suggestion is fine with me, except that I would remove "Mother" since WP:TITLESINTITLES is quite clear on that – the word isn't necessary for disambiguation and keeps the article title more concise. — RAVENPVFF · talk · 03:50, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Ravenpuff and @Winifredwhelan, I agree with Win. If we go with her title, then I'll be happy to edit the bio accordingly. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 21:24, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
- Corona was always known as "Mother Corona." The Book title is "Mother M. Corona." I would still prefer "Mother Mary Corona Wirfs," making it more encyclopedia-like. Winifredwhelan (talk) 19:58, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Ravenpuff, "Mother M. Corona Wirfs" is the most often result when you do a more specific google search. Using your logic, then, a more relevant title would be that one. I still think, though, that it's better just to keep it simple and use the original title, since it seems to be the name she was known by, even if the sources refer to her as "Wirfs" the first time they talk about her. We still need to hear from Win if Stiefermann does this. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 03:30, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Figureskatingfan: I would just briefly note here that you get more relevant results on Google by enclosing the search term in quotation marks – this brings up a few more sources, including some not specifically about M. Corona but which mention "Corona Wirfs" in passing. — RAVENPVFF · talk · 07:13, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Ravenpuff, M. Corona is an obscure but notable person, so she doesn't have many results in a google search. When you do a search of "Corona Wirfs," there are two results. (Unfortunately, there are more results about the Corona virus.) I argue that this isn't a strong enough reason to change her bio's title. You use the Stiefermann bio as a model, so my question is: What does she use? I don't have it handy, but @Winifredwhelan, the creator of this bio, does. Win, what say you? How does Stiefermann refer to M. Corona? I recommend that we go with the main source's convention. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 04:58, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Figureskatingfan Interestingly, UCRN (alias COMMONNAME) is the same reason why I would prefer adding the surname, as evidenced by the fact that Google doesn't produce good results when searching for "Mother Corona", but does for "Corona Wirfs". The case looks a little like Mother Teresa, but I'd argue that the comparison isn't quite as apt: virtually no sources use the name "Teresa Bojaxhiu", while "Corona Wirfs" is in use. I'd say that there just isn't enough sources to justify "Mother [Mary] Corona" being the overwhelmingly most common name – also bearing in mind that some uses of this name might just be how she's referred to after first being mentioned with her surname. An example of this would be the blurb of Stiefermann's biography: this would be a source in favor of using "Corona Wirfs", even if this is abbreviated to title and given name elsewhere in the publication (which practice, by the way, we aren't obliged to follow). Furthermore, using a surname would allow us to be WP:CONSISTENT with articles about other nuns (cf. e.g. Category:20th-century American Roman Catholic nuns). — RAVENPVFF · talk · 01:00, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Ravenpuff, I've been thinking about this a bit more since my response, and have done some searching around in WP policies. I direct you to this one: WP:UCRN, which states, "Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources) as such names will usually best fit the five criteria listed above." M. Corona isn't as well-known as Mother Teresa, whose article uses her most commonly used name, but most of the sources about Corona uses "M. Corona" or "Mother Corona." That's why we went with the current title. As a result, I'd like to take back my original suggestions and continue using the current title for this bio. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 21:42, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Figureskatingfan: I'd suggest just "Corona Wirfs" in the title, since "Mary" doesn't seem to be used as often as "Corona". (Both should still be mentioned at the start of the lead, though.) "Catherine Wilhelmina Wirfs" doesn't bring up anything via a Google search, so that doesn't qualify as the most common name. In a similar vein, once the page is renamed we should refer to her by surname, according to standard encyclopedic practice, rather than by given (religious) name. — RAVENPVFF · talk · 17:45, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
