Talk:Markowa

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Any reference for the name "Jozef Kokott"? Google shows not a single non-Wiki hit Sherurcij 12:53, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Recent edits

In regards to this edit - this is not a WP:COATRACK, as the journal article in question refers to Markowa directly -- "Markowa was a village in which some Poles exhibited great sacrifice and courage in order to rescue Jews. But Markowa was also a village where some Poles murdered Jews with great zeal. Markowa was also a place where sometimes the very same people both saved and murdered Jews. In all these respects Markowa was a village like many other villages across occupied Poland.". Peer reviewed journal articles not only are considered to be reliable but are generally the type of sources one is expected to use for controversial topics such as Markowa in WWII.Icewhiz (talk) 06:27, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

The quote is cherry picked and this isn't an article about the Museum. We should also avoid long quotes as they are non-encyclopedic.Volunteer Marek (talk) 06:30, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

The quote has nothing to do with the museum - it is about the events in Markowa (both the saving of Jews - and killing of Jews). Certainly wider events in WWII in the village are more relevant then the particular anecdote of the specific Ulma family. If the problem is that this is a direct quote - then it can easily be paraphrased. Icewhiz (talk) 06:43, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

The quote is from an article commenting on the museum. And yeah the problem is that it's a quote and that it's cherry picked and you're attempting it to use as a WP:COATRACK in your little ongoing crusade.Volunteer Marek (talk) 07:23, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

And the museum is on history in the village. The author is an historian. The journal in question - Journal of Genocide Research - is on topic (history, and specifically WWII history). Assuming this is paraphrased and not directly quoted - any actually relevant policy grounds to exclude this ? Icewhiz (talk) 07:38, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

WP:COATRACK. It depends on how you "paraphrase" it. And it's cherry picked. Why is it relevant to this article?Volunteer Marek (talk) 07:40, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

A history of a place is relevant to the place, particularly when we mention positive aspects of WWII rescue (Ulma) - it would be unbalanced not to mention the murders in the same village. Icewhiz (talk) 07:48, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

As far as I know some peasants murdered Jews terrorized by Ulmas' tragedy, some other didn't. Not everyone is heroic and eager to offer his family.

I don't know about murdering with great zeal. How is it possible to hide any Jews among people who murdered with great zeal? Were they so dumb to ignore hiding Jews in a village?

The Judenjagd by Grabowski describes murdering with looting and murdering to prevent German repressions. He describes also sexually motivated crimes. Does he says something about great zeal in the book? I don't mean his propaganda texts in popular press, but academic texts. Thesis that Poles murdered with great zeal and Germans only followed orders (BTW - issused by Germans) is German nationalistic, if not revisionistic or Holocaust denying. A ratio of psychopats is similar in any society, higher as the result of war: PTSD. A thesis that Poles were worse is racist. (Xx236 (talk) 09:29, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

This is a direct quote, in Journal of Genocide Research, of Libionka&Grabowski. I am unaware of either of them (or most modern historians) claiming Germans "just followed orders". I suggest you strike your assertion above regarding BLP historians.Icewhiz (talk) 11:51, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Why don't you quote any sources criticizing Germans or Austrians? They frequently explained their deeds by following orders. Another German explanation is I was a car driver/cook. Xx236 (talk) 12:26, 2 January 2019 (UTC)