Talk:Mairin Mitchell

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Z1720 (talk) 16:27, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that George Orwell said of Mairin Mitchell's Storm over Spain (1937) that it was "written by a Catholic, but very sympathetic to the Spanish Anarchists"?
  Source: George Orwell, "Review Storm over Spain by Mairin Mitchell" in The Collected Essays, Journalism and Letters of George Orwell: An age like this, 1920-1940 (Secker & Warburg, 1968), pp. 296–297

• Reviewed: Dracophyllum traversii

Created by Moonraker (talk). Self-nominated at 09:13, 3 August 2021 (UTC).

• The article is long enough and new enough. I assume good faith on the references that I can't access. The hook is directly cited. A QPQ has been completed. Someone else might come along and say that the lead is too short, but I'm fine with how it is. SL93 (talk) 20:00, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Promoted to Prep 6. Z1720 (talk) 16:27, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Nationality

I have found it hard to find the right way to put this in the lead. By family, Mitchell was half Anglo-Irish and half English. She was born and brought up in England, except that she went to school in Wales. In the 1930s she called herself “an Irishwoman”, but in 1941 “a British citizen of Irish parentage”. Writing to Orwell in 1937 she said she was Irish and not English. So it seems to me she was both British and Irish. British-Irish has been suggested, but to me that suggests Irish unionism, and Mitchell did not support the partition of Ireland. So I have settled for “British and Irish”. If anyone disagrees, we can discuss it here. Moonraker (talk) 13:06, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

"Anglo-Irish" is not a nationality, so she can't be "half Anglo-Irish and half English". Did she have Irish citizenship, or was it purely descent? GiantSnowman 14:29, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

GiantSnowman, I see you have removed “Irish” from the lead without discussion here, despite plenty of evidence in the article that Mitchell was indeed Irish as well as British. Could you please try to justify that? I agree, by the way, that Anglo-Irish is not a nationality, but my point (among others) was that she had one Anglo-Irish parent and one English. This is not a hugely significant point. In the 19th century, and until 1922, Great Britain and Ireland were a single country. “Anglo-Irish” is rather like “English”, different identities within the British Isles, which were also the United Kingdom. The point here is not that she was Anglo-Irish, but that she was Irish, which you seem to be in denial about, even to the point of imposing your view repeatedly without discussion. Moonraker (talk) 00:46, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

We have discussed in great detail at your talk page - and you have not answered my question about whether she actually had Irish citizenship or whether she just identified as Irish? GiantSnowman 10:24, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

GiantSnowman, none of the sources says Mitchell claimed Irish citizenship, but that is beside the point. When she was born, there was no such thing as Irish citizenship, Irishness came from descent. As a non-resident of Ireland, she could not have claimed its new citizenship until 1935. Whether she did or not we don’t know. But reliable sources say she was Irish, which is surely enough. Moonraker (talk) 13:27, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Then say "British-Irish" as previously suggested. GiantSnowman 15:17, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

GiantSnowman, you haven’t disagreed with my thoughts on that above, viz. that it has overtones of Irish unionism, which Mitchell was not into at all. She was clearly both British and Irish, do you mind saying what your objection is to the word ″and″? Moonraker (talk) 15:33, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Because it's non-standard wording in biographies. GiantSnowman 17:02, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

That is unconvincing, GiantSnowman. You agree that Mitchell was both British and Irish. You will not accept Anglo-Irish. You want “British-Irish”, even though you do not dispute that that means something different from “British and Irish”. Will you please quote a policy which rules out the word “and”? Failing that, you seem to be trying to impose a personal preference on an article you have not contributed to, except to try to change Mitchell’s nationality. Moonraker (talk) 10:59, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Only in your eyes - WP:OWNERSHIP applies by the way. I have already cited WP:MOSETHNICITY (given that Anglo-Irish refers to "ethnic group/social class in Ireland") and used my 15+ years here editing bios, and that is sufficient. Where is the policy which support your position? GiantSnowman 11:40, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Adam Mitchell

'Their Church of Ireland father, Adam Mitchell, Esq., of Parsonstown, was Sessional Crown Solicitor for King's County.[5]'

Is there any evidence that Adam Mitchell of Parsonstown (now called Birr) was the father of Thomas Houghton Mitchell? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ColRev (talk • contribs) 23:20, 16 February 2022 (UTC)