Talk:List of people with given name Alan

Requested move 16 April 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) ~ Aseleste (t, e | c, l) 15:15, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

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• List of people with given name Alan → List of people named Alan
• List of people with given name Andrew → List of people named Andrew
• List of people with given name Boris → List of people named Boris
• List of people with given name Diego → List of people named Diego
• List of people with given name Lloyd → List of people named Lloyd
• List of people with given name Matthew → List of people named Matthew
• List of people with given name Michael → List of people named Michael
• List of people with given name Mikhail → List of people named Mikhail
• List of people with given name Preston → List of people named Preston
• List of people with given name Stephen → List of people named Stephen
• List of people with given name Thomas → List of people named Thomas
• List of people with given name Tully → List of people named Tully
• List of people with given name Wilson → List of people named Wilson

– Compare, e.g., List of people named Daniel, List of people named David, List of people named Marie, List of people named Peter, List of people named Sandra, List of people named Sean, List of people named Susan, List of people named William. Several of these can also function as surnames, but the construction "people named" seems sufficient to indicate that this is usage as a given name, avoiding the awkward construction "people with given name", which feels like it is missing a "the". BD2412 T 04:14, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

• Similar to List of people named MacNamara, List of people named O'Brien, and List of people named O'Donnell? Would those include Harold Lloyd, George Michael, Bill Preston, Bill Thomas, and Flip Wilson? — BarrelProof (talk) 05:23, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
  • Those should ideally be at "List of people surnamed" titles. Right now, we have an highly inconsistent selection including over forty pages constructed as List of people with surname Smith, List of people with surname Jones, List of people with surname Harris, and the like. Category:Lists of people by surname has eight times as many article with this construction than with "List of people named" constructions, so the latter are clearly the outliers of the group. BD2412 T
    • I agree with the remark about the missing "the". — BarrelProof (talk) 06:16, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
      • Any ambiguity could be resolved with a hatnote, e.g., for people with the surname, Wilson, see List of people with surname Wilson, or whatever title those pages end up with. BD2412 T 06:25, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
• Support this request, and also support suggested request to move any applicable List of people named Foo articles to List of people with surname Foo. 162.208.168.92 (talk) 16:05, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
  • Maybe those should be List of people with the surname Foo or List of people surnamed Foo. Note that there are also a bunch of similar redirects. — BarrelProof (talk) 18:07, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

No objection to either, and I suspect that this is something that will need a separate RM. 162.208.168.92 (talk) 18:24, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

I have initiated that discussion at Talk:List of people with surname Brown#Requested move 18 April 2021. BD2412 T 03:40, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

• Support this proposal.--Ortizesp (talk) 02:24, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose - While concise, this change results in titles which make it unclear whether "named" refers to a given, middle, surname, nickname, etc., so I would consider this incomplete. If instead the proposal would be to merge all name into single "List of people named -x-" pages, then I'd support. If instead these remain lists of people with the given name, then let that be reflected in the titles... and rename the outliers mentioned by OP to use this "given name" title. -- Netoholic @ 06:06, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
  • It is intuitive that "named" indicates the given name, otherwise, "surnamed" would not need to exist as a word. It does not seem particularly likely that any reader will expect a list of people by their middle names, unless the subject happens to be one who goes by that as if it were a given name. BD2412 T 06:10, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose List of people named Diego would not work, because surnames are not listed there, but rather at Diego (surname). Similiarly for List of people named Wilson, it is ambiguous with the existing List of people with surname Wilson. WP:APOLIST suggests the convention of "List of people with surname ..." and " List of people with given name ..."—Bagumba (talk) 09:02, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
  • If you were at a party with a friend named Diego, would you introduce him to others there by saying, "this is my friend with given name Diego"? BD2412 T 16:33, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

    Parties aren't encyclopedias. And I haven't had the occasion to introduce my friends by "list of people ..." either. —Bagumba (talk) 18:07, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose - I do think the phrase "given name" is useful here. While it may seem intuitive to some that "named" refers to first name, this is a worldwide site, and our intuitions may not align. Therefore, the purpose of the page ought to be explicit. For example, on List of people with given name Stephen, someone just added B. S. Perera because their full name is Balasuriyage Steven Perera. If the proposed change were enacted, it would raise the question, "Is this person 'named' Steven?" However, I am open to other solutions such as List of people with the given name X. Thank you for this discussion and for trying to establish some consistency in this broad field of names. Kirby777 (talk) 01:34, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.