Talk:List of big-game hunters

Additional inclusions

I ask that anyone adding any other people to this list respect several things:

1. That people included are largely or predominantly known for their big game hunting, not just a couple of hunting trips.

2. That a short biography with emphasis on that person's hunting career be included, not just a link.

3. That the entry be reliably sourced.

4. That there only be one entry per person, with a determination made by the contributor as to which continent is the most appropriate.

Below is a preliminary list of additional people I have come across during the writing of this list for possible later inclusion which I hope to add in time and also invite others to do so, I am sure there are omissions.

Africa

• John Boyes (1873–1951)
• John Francois Burger (1882–1984)
• William Sydney Chadwick (b.1882)
• Roger Courtney (1902–1949)
• Richard John "RJ" Cuninghame (1871–1925)
• Captain Francis Arthur Dickinson (1874–1915)
• Sydney Downey
• Major William Robert Foran (1881–1968)
• Father and son Dimitrie (1839–1923) and Nicolae Ghica(1875–1921)
• Parker Gillmore
• Donald Ker
• Alexander Lake (1893–1961)
• Denis David Lyell (1871–1946)
• Sir Clive Phillipps-Wolley (1853–1918)
• Colonel James Stevenson-Hamilton (1867–1957)
• Lieutenant-Colonel John Henry Patterson (1867–1947)
• Count Sámuel Teleki de Szék (1845–1916)

Asia

• The Honorable James William Best (1882–1960)
• Captain John Henry Brandt (1927–2013)
• Douglas Hamilton (1818–1892)
• Sir Henry Ramsay (1816–1893)
• Lieutenant Colonel Charles Hugh Stockley (1882–1955)

North America

• John "Grizzly" Adams (1812–1860)
• Robert Eager Bobo (c.1847–1902)
• Craig Boddington (b.1953)
• Davy Crockett (1786–1836)
• Daniel Boone (1734–1820)
• Seth Kinman (1815–1888)
• Ben Lilly (1856–1936)
• Colonel William D. Pickett (1827–1917)
• Wilburn Waters (1812–1879)
• William Henry Wright (1856–1934)

Kind regards, Cavalryman V31 (talk) 23:02, 3 December 2017 (UTC).

• Cliff walker (1974-n/a) — Preceding unsigned comment added by BobQwerty22 (talk • contribs) 18:39, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello BobQwerty22, unfortunately I cannot find any reliable, secondary sources for Cliff Walker describing him as a big-game hunter of renown. Cavalryman (talk) 22:06, 26 November 2020 (UTC).

Requested move 30 March 2018

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Not moved. There is a clear absence of consensus for this move, and a well-argued presumption that "list of" articles collecting people with a specific characteristic will inherently be limited to notable people sharing that characteristic. The addition of a hyphen as proposed by No such user, however, is done as sufficiently supported and uncontroversial. bd2412 T 13:29, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

List of big game hunters → List of famous big game hunters – Move was made without discussion, as per WP:AT the original name is recognisable, natural and precise, with a daily average of roughly 120 page views. WP:LISTNAME only suggests not to use the word "famous", but does not mandate not to. I request the name be reverted so discussion can occur and consensus be reached. Cavalryman V31 (talk) 02:45, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 04:15, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

• @Cavalryman V31: There has been a WP:move war here. Best get it sorted out properly. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 04:16, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
  • To editor Anthony Appleyard: - Since this was a recent move war (starting March 10), it should have been put back to its longer standing title (with "famous") and @UnitedStatesian: directed to bring this to a full RM discussion. -- Netoholic @ 13:07, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose - unnecessary wordiness against WP:CONCISE and WP:LISTNAME. Obviously, the list should only include people which have coverage elsewhere on Wikipedia, so the "famous" part is assumed. All pages with titles beginning with List of famous shows a lot of redirects, but none are actual titles, demonstrating that this is not a practice we ever use on Wikipedia. -- Netoholic @ 13:00, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

To editor Netoholic:, thank you for your position, although I'd like to point out that UnitedStatesian has moved a significant number of similarly named lists in the last month which explains the lack other titles. Cavalryman V31 (talk) 14:00, 30 March 2018 (UTC).

• Oppose per Netoholic. I think that the "famous" or "notable" is inferred in many List of foo articles. However, we can use the RM as an opportunity to move it to to List of big-game hunters, to be consistent with big-game hunting and our general approach in MOS:HYPHEN #3. No such user (talk) 12:56, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
  • Support this move to the hyphenated title. -- Netoholic @ 03:12, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Internal contradiction

The lede states that this article lists people "who gained fame largely or solely because of their big-game hunting exploits". However, the list includes people such as William the Conqueror, Louis XV of France, Ernest Hemingway and Theodore Roosevelt, who, while known for being big-game hunters, likely gained fame for reasons independent of this activity. I suggest amending the lede to indicate that the list includes some people who gained fame for other reasons, but were also widely known for big-game hunting. bd2412 T 13:37, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Holt Collier's Mississippi war service

Bthayesesq, do you have a source for this edit? Because according to Paul Schullery, Holt Collier was "the only black man serving in the Confederate Army from the state of Mississippi". Schullery himself cites the Mississippi Department of Archives and History, his endnote reading:

Laura D.S. Harrell, Reasearch Assistant, State of Mississippi Department of Archives and History, letter to Major Robert Greene, U.S. Army, Washington, D.C., March 20, 1970. The letter says, in part:
"The only Negro for whom we have evidence of service in the Confederate States Army is Holt Collier.  Enclosed are a letter attesting to the fact and a copy of his pension application.  Although we do not have an official record of his service, there seems to be no doubt of it".

Kind regards, Cavalryman V31 (talk) 05:07, 17 January 2019 (UTC).

References

Black Confederates

Aside from the mountain of scholarly works in recent years on the subject, I can personally attest to the fact that “old Wash” (Washington) was a black man who served in the Confederate Army along with my lineal ancestors as attested in Manly Wade Wellman’s book, “Rebel Boast” (1956), Owl Publications, Inc. (Library of Congress No.: 56-10520). This book used the handwritten journals of Capt. Cary Whitaker as primary source material which are maintained in the archives of the Wilson Library at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and which I have personally researched and reviewed. Bthayesesq (talk) 03:29, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Black Confederate references

https://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Black_Confederates

http://mshistorynow.mdah.state.ms.us/articles/289/black-confederate-pensioners-after-the-civil-war

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Louisiana_Native_Guard_(CSA)

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1305763.Black_Confederates

Bthayesesq (talk) 03:39, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Holy Collier biography

The definitive work and most authoritative source on the life of Holt Collier is Minor Buchanan’s “HOLT COLLIER: His Life, His Roosevelt Hunts, and The Origin of the Teddy Bear” (Centennial Press, August 1, 2002) and no where in this work does it make the preposterous claim that “Holt Collier was the only black man in the Confederate Army.” Since this would be a fairly significant detail to include about one’s life, the omission is telling. This negative inference, coupled with the other positive sources cited earlier, is more than enough to justify the previous edit I made. Bthayesesq (talk) 03:48, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Hello Bthayesesq, I hope you don’t mind my sight alteration to your separate sections, they all seem to be in response to my previous message. The article does not claim Collier was “the only black man in the Confederate Army” but instead “the only black man to serve in the Confederate Army from Mississippi”. If you have any sources contradicting that statement I would be very happy to restore your edit. Kind regards, Cavalryman V31 (talk) 06:14, 1 February 2019 (UTC).

Good morning, Cavalryman. I am not a dedicated Wiki editor but more of an end-user -- however, when I see something factually incorrect, I take the time to correct it. I'm not sure what your military history background or forte is, but mine is the American Civil War. Of course, I am also a former Cavalryman myself and a current MAJ in the US Army Reserve. Regardless, the statement "he was the only black man to serve in the Confederate Army from Mississippi..." is absolutely untrue. Your only citation for this monumental, extremely broad assertion is a reference to a 1970 letter from an archivist in the Mississippi Department of Archives and History which states, "The only Negro for whom we have evidence of service in the Confederate States Army is Holt Collier. Enclosed are a letter attesting to the fact and a copy of his pension application. Although we do not have an official record of his service, there seems to be no doubt of it". As a lawyer, I can tell you that this is certainly not definitive nor a conclusive statement. On top of that, I have already provided you a much more recently published, scholarly article from the Mississippi Department of Archives and History documenting numerous other Black Confederate soldiers from Mississippi. Please restore my previous edit as I, believe, it maintains the integrity of the article while adhering closest to the truth of the matter asserted. Alternatively, anything along the lines of "one of the few to serve" and/or "to serve as an active combatant" are fine, too, and avoid the problem of over-generalization coupled with a lack of context (the article is, after all, about Big Game Hunters). Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bthayesesq (talk • contribs) 15:59, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

Hello Bthayesesq, would you be happy to change it to “the only recorded black man to serve as a soldier in the Confederate Army from Mississippi”? Kind regards, Cavalryman V31 (talk) 19:51, 1 March 2019 (UTC).

Fred Green

Hello @Hayesstw: do you have any references for Fred Green? His article is particularly unhelpful. The only potential reference I can find is this snippet view article in Google books, and I cannot read it to confirm what it says. Cavalryman (talk) 03:52, 25 November 2021 (UTC).