Talk:List of Korean Nobel laureates

Stuff that doesn't belong in this list

@Phoenix7777: Regarding your argument in your edit summary from when you again restored the sections that don't belong in this list: It amount to "Because other lists include stuff that doesn't belong in them, this list should as well." See WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Previously, you added a source to justify the inclusion of these people, but it didn't justify it at all. That source is titled "Nobel Laureates and Country of Birth". This article isn't "List of Nobel laureates born in Korea", it's "List of Korean Nobel laureates". Two different things.

Further, a set of "predictions" by some source isn't a factual list of "future candidates". That's no more encyclopedic than some source's guesses as to who will win each of the prizes from the coming Academy Awards ceremony. Largoplazo (talk) 22:25, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

Also, see WP:COATRACK. It looks like one or more trivia fans felt moved to go off on tangents, but this information is outside the scope of the article. I just removed the corresponding listings from the Hungarian, Chinese, and Japanese lists. This is all like adding a few varieties of pear to the List of apple varieties because some apple growers also grow those varieties of pears. Largoplazo (talk) 22:33, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

One thing that really gets me about these, and similar goings-on on various list of Grammy nominees, is that if I were to win a Nobel prize, I might come to Wikipedia some day to find that some diehard categorizer had added me under lists five lists of X Nobel laureates, in addition to the correct American one, based on where my grandparents were from and where I've lived during my life. It's more than a bit absurd. Largoplazo (talk) 23:47, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

Nobelprize.org does not list Nobel laureates by nationality, instead it lists them by country of birth and lists Charles J. Pedersen as well as Kim Dae-jung. If we don't list the laureate born in the county, there will be discrepancies between the two. Listing the non-citizen laureate solves this confusion for readers. Also please note that the lead of this article says "This is a list of Nobel laureates who are either of Korean descent or were born in Korea". List of Nobel laureates by country has criteria to list a laureate under the countries mentioned in the Nobelprize.org. Thus, it lists laureates under the counties of citizenship as well as the birth countries with an asterisk(*).

Thomson Reuters Citation Laureates is one of the famous list of candidates and often cited by media prior to the announcement of the Nobel Prize every year. So there is no problem listing the laureates mentioned in the list.―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 04:50, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

If Nobelprize.org has a list of people born in Korea, and we have a list of Koreans, then one would expect that the two lists would have in common Koreans born in Korea; that this list but not that one would include Koreans not born in Korea; and that that list but not this one would include non-Koreans born in Korea. There isn't anything confusing about this. Two different lists, even if their definitions are overlapping, are going to be different.

"Lists of Nobel laureates by country" is vague. It doesn't specify whether "by country" means "by citizenship" or by "place of birth" or by "having lived there at some point". "List of Korean Nobel laureates" is specific. It means Noble laureates who are Korean.

I don't know where you think this confusion is likely to come from anyway, insofar as people aren't likely to be getting the information they're looking for here, then saying, "Oh, I also have to get this information from this other source", and then being confused when they aren't the same (and, if they did expect them to be the same, then why were they looking the info up over there after already having found it here?).

If the lead of an article contradicts the title, then the lead needs to be revised. Otherwise, we have WP:COATRACK.

It doesn't matter if the list of speculations is well-known, it's a list of speculations, not factual information. Imagine if we had a "List of future Academy Award winners" based on various pundits' speculations as to who may or should be nominated, before the nominations have even happened. Further, the inclusion of that section is absurd, because those the speculations cited were from years in the past, and they didn't come true. In what way are these people, today, "future candidates"? Imagine if "List of Academy Award winners" included people who somebody guessed three years ago might win that year.

This is all WP:Listcruft. Largoplazo (talk) 09:47, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

We are discussing how to make the contents to meet the current title. It is funny to restrict the contents to meet the title unless the title is an absolute necessity. We should use an appropriate title to meet the contents. The current title was merely named when I created this article. There is no reason to stick to the title. If we rename the title to List of Nobel laureates in South Korea, the concern of nationality/place of birth is cleared. An editor claimed this article is about laureates not nominees. Then if we rename the title to Nobel Prize in South Korea, the concern is solved. The purpose of this article is to describe the situation of the Nobel Prize in South Korea. Then we can expand this article including a description, for example, Institute for Basic Science which was established with the Nobel Prize in mind. I will rewrite "Future candidates" section to address your concern. How about renaming this article to Nobel Prize in South Korea?―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 22:06, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

It's funny to want to treat an article as such a catch-all for loosely related trivia instead of remaining the one thing it claims to be. I also don't understand the necessity of Wikipedia having a list that has the same composition of a largely related list that happens to reside on another website. From my perspective, the problem is the idea that we should have a hodgepodge article like this or that it needs to follow some other website's list created for possibly some different purpose.

"Nobel Prize in South Korea" wouldn't include non-Koreans not living in Korea who happen to have been born or spent part of their childhood there, because in their cases the Nobel Prize wouldn't be in South Korea. It also wouldn't include Koreans who haven't lived in Korea for years because the Nobel Prize still wouldn't be in South Korea.

A "future candidates" section that only parrots speculations by various people and in which the entries aren't future candidates (and wouldn't be from the perspective of today, as the predictions are from earlier years), or aren't known to be future candidates, fails WP:V 100% and doesn't belong on Wikipedia. Wikipedia isn't a gossip sheet, redistributing arbitrary sources' prognostications as to who will win the current season of So You Think You Can Dance, the Best Actor BAFTA prize, or the Nobel Prize for Chemistry. Largoplazo (talk) 22:18, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 31 January 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: consensus not to move the page at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 23:29, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

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List of Korean Nobel laureates → Nobel Prize in South Korea – As above discussion, the current name List of Korean Nobel laureates restricts the expansion of this article. Nobel Prize in South Korea is more flexible to expand this article. ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 22:56, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Korea.―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 23:09, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China.―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 06:46, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics.―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 07:02, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose See my comments in the previous section. The goal appears to be to have a title that accommodates the kind of content this article had when I first came across it, a catch-all page for not only Korean Nobel laureates but for assorted trivia vaguely associated with both Korea and the Nobel Prizes, including such cruft as arbitrary Koreans who, in the past, have been pointed to by somebody or other as somebody who might even be nominated, and laureates who aren't Korean but whose mothers, when the laureates or nominees were born, happened to be living in Korea. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Largoplazo (talk) 00:04, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose. This is a list of laureates. No price = no inclusion. Sam Sailor 00:59, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose per above, but prefer that this title be redirected to List of Nobel laureates by country. A list of one is not much of a list, and few other countries at List of Nobel laureates by country have their own free-standing list article. —  AjaxSmack  21:33, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose. The subject Nobel Prize in South Korea is of dubious encyclopedic value, unlike, say, Nobel Prize in Physics :-); see All pages with titles beginning with Nobel Prize in. Staszek Lem (talk) 20:37, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

No opposition to merge. No prejudice against this list being revisted in future when/if there are more laureates. Vladimir.copic (talk) 22:58, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

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I propose merging List of Korean Nobel laureates into List of Nobel laureates by country. List of Korean Nobel laureates has one entry that is already listed on List of Nobel laureates by country. There is no need to maintain this article to duplicate one piece of information - Korean Kim Dae-jung won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2000. We, rightly, do not have list articles for other countries (Peru, Philippines, Slovenia etc) that have one Nobel laureate. Putting in a proposal rather than boldly redirecting as this article has recently been kept as part of a bulk AfD discussion. Vladimir.copic (talk) 23:24, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

• @Vladimir.copic: Support. We can revisit this list if there will be more Korean Nobel laureates in the future. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 10:01, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.