Talk:Kidnapping and murder of Aldo Moro

Subsequent arrests

There is no substantial information on the subsequent official investigation, arrests and trials. This results in a disbalanced article. You guys really need to give an account of this before you get to the (seemingly credible) issues of secret service/foreign government involvement, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.101.64.31 (talk) 23:12, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Copyedit

Hi

During the copy-edit some points came to light:

• "during which Moro was submitted to a political process" - What political process? Does this mean they attempted to brainwash him?
• Many of the refs were preceeding punctuation.
• " According to some" - phrases to avoid 101 :¬)
• "thus halt the Communists rise to the Italian state institutions, reassuring the BR as a key point in a future revolutionary war against capitalism" - unsure of the meaning of this statement: "reassuring" (of what?) "as a key point".
• "... was suppressing the Italian people since years" - I changed since to for, probably a translational error?
• DC, PCI - I think these may have to be superceded by "the" but am unsure.
• "in a subterranean car box." and "brought him to the car box" and "SISDE had been also informed that in a car box in via" - Not sure what a car box is? is it a car buried underground?
• "Is maybe there, behind keeping it hard against me, an American or German instruction?" - again lost in translation?
• Second quote from communique No.3 in the section Communications and negotiations, "summons the other hierarchs" - another translation problem I suspect.
• Table in section Terrorists involved in the kidnapping "Semi-freed" - does this mean paroled?
• In the P2 section: 'with the message "Greetings, brrrr"' - Needs more to tell what the significance of the "brrr" is - was it because this region is cold at that time of year and so would put him likely in the region?

Also as the article is of an Italian subject, I am unsure as to whether the article should be using American English, especially for things like metre. Chaosdruid (talk) 16:59, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

I changed "box" to "lock up garage" Masonmilan (talk) 13:03, 16 March 2016 (UTC) I changed "process" to "trial" Masonmilan (talk) 12:53, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Is the new text you're adding ("by the so-called "people's court" set up by the Brigate Rosse") supported by the source? Alcherin (talk) 13:20, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

I took (translated) the extra bit from the Italian wikipedia page. Masonmilan (talk) 15:21, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Schleyer

Has the kidnapping and murder of Hanns-Martin Schleyer in 1977 been used as a model for the kidnapping of Adlo Moro? If yes, this might be explained in the text. 78.52.147.30 (talk) 13:18, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Use of term terrorist in the article

The text of the article commonly refers to the perpetrators of the attack as terrorists, but according to WP:TERRORIST using the term terrorist should be avoided unless widely supported by sources and then only if in text attribution is provided. This would be my first edit, so forgive me if there is intext attribution and I'm not recognizing it. If there isn't and there is no objection I will change such references to a more neutral term such as attackers. - Authorman1986 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Authorman1986 (talk • contribs) 19:41, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

---

I just want to say that I noticed this too, and there's also a whole section about how law enforcement struggled with the fact that people were largely sympathetic or Indulgent (sounds a bit clerical, almost as if a Christian Democrat wrote it). Considering how there's clearly a second side to the story, and how the ruling government at the time had a history of election rigging, it's just as easy to argue they were rebels. Just depends on whether you're to the right or the left of centre.

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Translation issues

I speculate that this article was (machine?) translated from the Italian Wikipedia. For instance, it says, "Enrico Berlinguer spoke of «an attempt to stop a positive political process», but Lucio Magri (representative of the extreme left radical chic) was concerned about the lie, as a reaction to the massacre, laws against freedom, saying that «it would go right on the road that the strategy of subversion wills», and asked to the State «a self-criticism» and a genuine willingness to tackle problems «that are the basis of the economic and moral crisis»." That is not comprehensible to me as a native English speaker. I'd try to improve it but I cannot make out the actual meaning.

Also note that here and inconsistently elsewhere the Italian-style quotation punctuation "«...»" is used. I'm pretty sure Wikipedia's style says that for English Wikipedia, US-style quotation is preferred.

Another quote: "It was also determined that the participation of Germano Maccari." That is not a complete sentence. What was determined about the participation of the Maccari?

There's also a reference to an "exliciti will" that is not explained. There is no Wikipedia article containing "exliciti" aside from this one. That word doesn't appear to exist in English, and I can't find the Latin-seeming phrase "ex liciti" in any real articles in a quick web search. What the heck does it mean?

I think this article needs a fixup by a native Italian-speaking bilingual person. IAmNitpicking (talk) 13:31, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

The Italian quotation marks and all text within (and around) them seem to have all been introduced by the IP editor 151.65.228.152, who unfortunately has not been active since last April. As for Germano Maccari, this diff shows that it used to say "... the participation of Germano Maccari and Prospero Gallinari was likely." This must have been removed at some point, and the reference changed, for reasons unknown. As for the exliciti will, I'll ping the editor who originally added it, @Attilios: for an explanation. Alcherin (talk) 17:12, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

This sentence: "It was up to her, the trial of the terrorists would become the process to the Christian Democracy, of which her husband was president, to the government of which her husband was the architect and guarantor, and to the security services of which her husband had been the gravedigger." This looks like a mistranslation. "Processo" is the Italian word for "Trial".

The sentence should probably read: "If it was up to her, the trial of the terrorists would become the trial of the Christian Democratic Party, of which her husband was president; of the government of which her husband was architect and guarantor; and of the [members of the] security services for whom her husband was the grave digger." Mballen (talk) 17:59, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

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Fringe Theories

It looks like there are a number of really fringey theories in the article that are presented in a way that treats them as serious and credible. That is problematic. See WP:FRINGE and WP:UNDUE. Are the sources even RS? -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:30, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Some may be fringe, but if anything, the seriously challenged Italian government version of events is unfairly portrayed as the uncontroversial truth. Prinsgezinde (talk) 12:36, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Then reliable secondary sources need to be produced to that effect. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:37, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

@Ad Orientem: I happen to have some sources which may help develop the page, and possibly curtail the use of fringe theories. Hopefully, I'll try to work on the page in the next months if time permits. Psychloppos (talk) 10:37, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:19, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Suggested move

IMO, the page should be titled Kidnapping and murder of Aldo Moro. Although the kidnapping was a momentous event, the most important thing is that Moro was murdered. Psychloppos (talk) 10:37, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Split into "Aldo Moro murder conspiracy theories"

I am proposing to split the "Subsequent hypotheses, investigations and trials" section, or at least a large portion of it, into an article titled something in the vein of "Aldo Moro murder conspiracy theories" or "Conspiracies about the murder of Aldo Moro". Considering the "inappropriate weight" notice located above the article and the disproportionate length of said section in the article and the common discussion of allegations of involvement of foreign entities in the killing. Bill3602 (talk) 02:45, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

• Conditional Support Any new article on the conspiracy theories must comply with WP:FRINGE and WP:PROFRINGE. Conspiracy theories can be notable if they have received sufficient coverage in WP:RS sources. Care needs to be taken that only those theories that have received extensive coverage in mainstream reliable sources should be mentioned. And use of FRINGE sources should be deprecated except when noting their claims taking care to present the facts as laid out in RS sources per WP:DUE. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:40, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

  @Bill3602 If there are no further comments within the next week or so, I think this could probably be done per WP:BOLD. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:47, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

• Support: Maybe we could replace the section with one or few sentences from an RS discussing the existence and prevalence of conspiracy theories. As for the new split off article, only keep the ones that have been widely discussed in RS and cut the rest. StellarHalo (talk) 14:31, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

"behind keeping it hard against me"

Maybe that meant something in Italian. It's just gobbledegook in English. 94.191.153.233 (talk) 10:28, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

"Vi è forse, nel tener duro contro di me, un'indicazione americana e tedesca?" This is the original Italian. Any better translation is welcome. Davide King (talk) 01:39, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

"traces of vegetables"

Another mistranslation? Or did he have a vegetarian last meal? 94.191.153.233 (talk) 10:33, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

It meant vegetazione as in Vegetation. Davide King (talk) 01:40, 31 August 2023 (UTC)