Talk:Kenya Defence Forces

Careers

can the military of kenya offer free training to aspiring pilots in return for them joining thier respective air wings For one to get Flight lesons withthe Kenya ai force one needs to join as a cadet and thenthrough subsequent process be inducted into the flying school

can a person join the military of kenya and continue with his choice of career thou' in military eg accoutant. for example im a holder of diploma in business management and i have studed for 2 years and im willing to join the military this time round can some one advice me. yes that is possible. every year the military advertises for recruitment to the posts of GSO (General Service Officers-fighters) and proffesional(in this ase you) they to have need for accountants, lawyers, Kadhis, e.t.c. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.202.194.42 (talk) 06:32, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moot. Done by User:Neutrality and no objections. Dpmuk (talk) 12:41, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

---

Military of Kenya → Kenya Defence Forces — Under article 241 of the new Constitution of Kenya (see text) adopted last year, Kenya's military has been named the Kenya Defence Forces. Compare with British Armed Forces, Israel Defense Forces, Australian Defence Force etc. Note that "defence" is used (not "defense") as Kenya traditionally bases its spellings on British English. --The Celestial City (talk) 00:07, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Support- Seems reasonable. Oldag07 (talk) 01:27, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

• I'm going to go ahead and move - should not be controversial. Neutrality^talk 21:26, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Kenya Army composition

See link ? Orbat version 0.5 Buckshot06 (talk) 03:03, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Notes at T-72 ?

Why is there a note on the T-72 section, which is reserved for special information about modified weapons I guess? "125mm gun" is the note, and the 125mm gun is the standard gun of the T-72? More modern western tanks use the Rheinmetall 120mm gun, but this gun is superior to the T-72 gun because of many factors and thats why the USA use the Rheinmetall 120mm gun, built under license in the USA, in their MBT, the M1 Abrams. Is it a special gun that Kenya use? I'm looking right now for information about the forces of Kenya and I thought I would find more about one of the larger african states.

Greetings Kilon22 (talk) 15:28, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Linda Nchi

The joint Operation Linda Nchi was launched after an official weekend meeting in Dhobley between Kenyan and Somali military officials [1]. The incursion itself, though, was planned as far back as 2010, years before any abductions [2]. Also, Kenya had no role in the Jubaland region of Somalia's formation, nor in the establishment of any other region in Somalia. Only Somali political stakeholders did; those were the parties that actually signed the Addis Ababa formation agreement [3]. Middayexpress (talk) 16:39, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

For clarity, and avoiding issues spread between multiple talk pages, all interested in this discussion should probably consider actively engaging at Talk:Somali Civil War. Buckshot06 (talk) 21:52, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Ok. Middayexpress (talk) 16:33, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

"Led"

In response to this edit the article cited doesn't say that Kenya "led" the drive. [4] AcidSnow (talk) 16:55, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Indeed, it doesn't AcidSnow; even if it had, that would be false. The operation was at first jointly led per the weekend meeting just prior to the incursion [5], as well as the 18 October joint communique in Mogadishu just after it [6]. It was then officially led by the Somali government per the 31 October joint communique signed in Nairobi [7]. Middayexpress (talk) 19:51, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Understood. I also fixed my link. AcidSnow (talk) 20:10, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Budget

Clarification of millitary budget. The article says Defense spending is 843 million $ and is given as 5.3% of GDP. But 5.3% of the kenyan 65 billion $ economy is much more than that

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Lead section, and corruption, esp re sugar smuggling, Navy, Kismayo

As I know lead section is about general overview of some institition not colection of the news and in this case it became collection of the news about corruption allegations. With undue weigh especially for the lead section. Well it can stay in the body of the article not to become some magnet for personal advocacies and soapbox for promotion or political struggles. That type of content should be at personal blogs or so. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.221.249.151 (talk) 23:40, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Stop talking pure nonsense. You know, from your IP address, probably better than me, how important corruption is in Kenya. Stop trying to whitewash by removing content that has been in that position for years, now updated. Buckshot06 (talk) 23:47, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Well about that you can make a blog. I am suprised to see to you don't know to wikipedia is not soapbox from promotion or for any kind of advocacy. Also it is not a news website. And there need to be due weight. Your reasons are totally just personal. And with Kenya I don't have any connection. Maybe you do. Btw I checked some kenyan agencies and institutions and well just in this article lead I saw that type of content. In body yes as I puted it without change of content, lead no! But also with due weight and not in a form of a news website. Honestly, any peacekeeping operation has more impact on this institution (here is focus on the institution just) and many things can improve here,Kenyan air force and Kenyan navy sections looking sad indeed also.178.221.249.151 (talk) 23:52, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

"any peacekeeping operation has more impact on this institution"; not so, sorry - preferential entry into the Army/Rifles depending on what money you offer has had a massive impact, probably mostly negative, on the quality of soldiers since Moi's time, for decades. Men who want to avoid the entry requirements by buying their way in are hardly likely to be good soldier material. Buckshot06 (talk) 22:53, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Seems to you have some personal views about country or so. The lead is lead and we here does not make own judgments. And quality of soldiers etc. Really one sentence about corruption problem is enough. Due and undue weight and neutrality. And also not advocacy website. Also I checked many institutions from the FBI to many more and nowhere I saw things like in the Kenya defence force lead. 178.221.249.151 (talk) 22:56, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

You *are* making your own judgements; every time you remove extra details from the lead, you are diminishing the weight given to theft, waste, abuse, and stealing from the taxpayers, fathers, and mothers of Kenya.

I was just starting to collect the sources:

• https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2018-11-20-kdf-recruitment-is-free-of-bribery-top-officer-assures/ "The process is always marred by reports of corruption. In 2013, Sh5 million was paid in bribes and Sh4.9 million involving nine corruption and bribery cases reported last year." (2018)
• https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-37836444 "Dozens of people have been arrested at an army barracks in Kenya after turning up with fake call-up papers, it's been reported" ..The offer of a job is the driving factor in a country where one-in-six young people are unemployed." (2016)
• https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/the-cost-of-kenyan-corruption/ "During al-Shabaab’s 2013 attack on Nairobi’s Westgate Mall, which claimed sixty-seven lives, Kenyan soldiers laying siege to the attackers looted the mall of cash, electronics, and alcohol. Earlier that year [2013], the Kenyan military liberated Kismayo, a port in southern Somalia that is the primary export site for Somalia’s lucrative charcoal industry. The United Nations.. banned the trade because it is a major source of al-Shabaab funding, yet the UN alleges that the Kenyan military—in exchange for a cut of the port revenues those exports help generate—has allowed the business to continue and even grow. By doing so, the military is enabling a group with which it is at war to generate vital income off the taxes it levies on charcoal production and transport in the areas it still controls." (May 29, 2015)
• "Education also influenced corruption as the results showed that the respondents with some education but no degree were more likely to pay a bribe. ..witnessed during police and army recruitment exercises where job applicants bribe to get employed in the forces." Odhiambo, Fredrick Onyango (2015). "Determinants of corruption in Kenya: Born and bred to bribe". Social Sciences. 4 (6): 134–141.
• "Allegations of corruption in military procurement have not resulted in serious investigations, largely due to the fact that security and defense contracting has been exempt from regular procurement regulations. Numerous scandals have arisen in recent years, and more continue to come to light through investigative reporting by Kenyan media, notably the Nairobi Law Monthly.[79] The now-defunct Kenya Anti-Corruption Commission (KACC) investigated 18 security-related contracts in relation to the Anglo Leasing case and forwarded seven to the attorney general for prosecution. Appeals and petitions filed by defendants have resulted in repeated delays of the only two prosecutions undertaken.[80]" source is [8], expanded version at [9], which also said that the contracts included "the construction of forensic laboratories and security vehicles for the national police and the deliv-ery of an oceanographic survey vessel to the Kenya Navy" (2012);
• https://nation.africa/kenya/news/sh1m-bribes-paid-during-kenya-army-hiring--743202 "Sh1m bribes paid during Kenya army hiring" - About Sh1 million was paid out as bribes during the recent army recruitment. ..Relatives of recruits wishing to join the armed forces paid Sh900,000 countrywide in attempts to join the disciplined forces, a senior military official has said. ..He said bribery had gone down considerably from the last recruitment." (2010) Buckshot06 (talk) 23:15, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
• "In 2003, the military was split over plans to buy new Czech fighter jets. The plan to buy the jet fighters would have cost taxpayers Sh12.3 billion.
• A Sh4.1 billion Navy ship deal. A Navy project was given to Euromarine, a company associated with Anura Pereira, the tender awarded in a process that has been criticised as irregular. The tender was worth Sh4.1 billion. Military analysts say a similar vessel could have been built for Sh1.8 billion." (2003 and 2004, part of the Anglo-Leasing scandal, from Corruption in Kenya, see also [10] and [11])
• * A Sh360 million helicopter servicing contract in South Africa. Military officers had argued that the contract was too extravagant and servicing the helicopters could be done locally. Kenya Air Force (KAF) went ahead to spend Sh108 million as a down payment for servicing the Puma helicopters, whose tail number is logged as 418 at Denel Aviation, a South African firm. (pre 2000).

About that sugar it is denied about, by government and army. It happned 5 years ago and well it didnt made huge encyclopedic impact at institution especially to be in the lead. So lets say, at the us marines page we collect in their lead any wrongduing and any allegation and put it there. Logical, it is not. And the kenyan armed forces are not diffrent or there is some personal bad feelings. This " Kenya's military, like many government institutions in the country, has been tainted by corruption allegations. " for the lead is ok. Other things are in the body of article. Simple we don't do here collection of individual news without encycopedic impact and put all that in the lead section. Also we here don't do advocacy or promote things. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.221.249.151 (talk) 23:33, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Honestly your lack of knowledge is surprising. Have you read the original reports [12] and especially S/2015/801? The trade has been ongoing since Al-Shabaab seized Kismayo (or maybe before), continued after the KDF took Kismayo in Operation Sledge Hammer from 28 September - 1 October 2012, and continues today. There are no indications that President Ahmed Madobe of Jubaland will change his practices, because he funds the government of Jubaland significantly through them; he could not run his government otherwise. Yes the Kenya Navy makes large profits illegally, through their presence at the Kismayo docks, but it will continue just as long as the current governance set-up in that area continues, which is reliant on Somalis, not Kenyans. Buckshot06 (talk) 23:52, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

I am not kenyan and I dont care about their political struggles etc and even less about somalian affairs. I am following about to be NEUTRAL, and to have DUE WEIGHT and not doing any ADVOCACY for any type of causes and to DON'T use wikipedia as a BLOG. I acted when I saw to lead section is strange. Reader can think to just the kdf is corrupted and has problems. In fact many politicians and insititution there has much more of problems. This " Kenya's military, like many government institutions in the country, has been tainted by corruption allegations. " for the lead is ok. And there is link about general corruption article. This is the KDF page, functions, organisations and historcal general overview. Individual cases and a news are reported in encyclopedian way if they has huge impact on the institution. All other goes on individual pages under own articles. 178.221.249.151 (talk) 00:28, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

References

update the article with latest information

I will be updating the article gradually with the latest information and also history.

Mwenemucii (talk) 13:35, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

Corruption Allegations

The allegations should be a stand alone criticism section and not a lead to reflect neutrality and objectivity. It does contain allegations that are not up to date as per the last two annual UN reports on Somalia for instance. I do not see other militaries with such an odd format despite having similar or worse criticisms and I believe Mwenemucii had rightly arranged the section. It ought to be maintained as it was for objectivity.

Mikeytuku (talk) 07:06, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

Stand alone criticism sections are discouraged at Wikipedia. As pov and vandalism magnet etc. The best approach is integrated in the body of the article. So in the lead and history section etc. 109.93.0.38 (talk) 04:16, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

As I said stand alone criticism sections are not prefered format. Integraded in the body of the article is the best way. 109.93.0.38 (talk) 04:22, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia is encyclopedic to provide the best, most relevant information from a neutral and objective standpoint. Then it has to be updated to reflect current information but as a lead it is quite bizarre when compared to other pages in my humble opinion it appears heavily biased.

Mikeytuku (talk) 07:38, 10 November 2021 (UTC)