Talk:Kake (comics)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Vaticidalprophet (talk) 12:15, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

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Tom of Finland

• ... that Kake has been described as "a sort of Johnny Appleseed ... spreading the seeds of liberated, mutually satisfying, ecstatically explicit gay sex"? Source: The Complete Kake Comics
  • ALT1:... that Tom of Finland (pictured) based the appearance of his leatherman character Kake on a Finnish man he met in Stockholm? Source: Tom of Finland: The Official Life and Work of a Gay Hero
  • ALT2:... that Tom of Finland (pictured) gave his leatherman character Kake a friendly and easygoing personality to contrast typical portrayals of leathermen in heterosexual culture as menacing or dangerous? Source: Tom of Finland: The Official Life and Work of a Gay Hero

• Reviewed: 30 West 56th Street
• Comment: Article was also promoted to GA status on June 16.

Created by Morgan695 (talk). Self-nominated at 02:14, 8 June 2021 (UTC).

• Fun, interesting article about something I knew nothing about before reading it. New enough, created and nominated on same day (June 7) and recent GA. Long enough, at almost 9,000 characters. AGF re: policy requirement, since it just passed a successful GAN. Hook refs are from an inaccessible source, but again, will AGF based on recent GAC. All hooks are fine, short, interesting, and neutral, although I insist that we use the first hook; it's such a great, funny line. QPQ done. Image in public domain. Good to go. One picky comment that has no effect on this review: I think the lead should be longer. I also think you should think about improving this article some more and submitting it to FAC. Best. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 04:34, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

• Thank you for your kind comments! Not sure I have another FAC in me at the moment, but I'll certainly consider it. Morgan695 (talk) 17:59, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Clarifying headings

I think the previous heading "Summary" for the first section was clearer than "Overview". "Overview" sounds like it could refer to a lot of things (for example, it could be an overview of the whole topic and its history). Another option could be "Content", since it's describing the content of the comics.

"Release" is also an awkward heading IMO. It makes more sense for a one-shot work like an album or movie, rather than an ongoing series. Maybe "Publication" would be clearer? "Distribution"? "Publication and distribution"? Colin M (talk) 16:34, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Added both of these suggestions. Morgan695 (talk) 19:48, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Comic title page for lead image

Thoughts on using a cover of one of the Kake comics as the lead image, rather than the current one (a drawing of Kake extracted from the Taschen anthology)? My thinking is that it could still illustrate the appearance of the character, while also illustrating a key visual aspect of the comics. Colin M (talk) 16:38, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

@Colin M: IMO, the benefit of using the character illustration is that it clearly and directly depicts the character in his "platonic" leatherman form. I found that many of the comic covers don't clearly illustrate the character, either because he is not the sole subject of the cover image, or because he's not dressed in the leatherman costume (sometimes because he's in a different costume, but usually because he's partly/fully undressed). The most representative cover if we go in this direction would probably be the second edition cover for Kake in the Wild West, though I'm unable to find a clean scan. Morgan695 (talk) 20:22, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Also per your note about expanding the Summary in your GAR, I added a paragraph about Kake's personality. Morgan695 (talk) 21:47, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Perhaps another solution here is to replace File:Kake Comic Panel.png with a different panel? Both depict near-identical subject material – Kake in his leather outfit with his legs spread open – so it might provide better commentary to have, say, a panel that illustrates the pornographic nature of the series, or one of Kake interacting with one of the archetypal characters mentioned in the summary. Morgan695 (talk) 21:59, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

I agree that the Kake in the Wild West cover is probably the best of the lot. It also has the advantage of being one of the less explicit ones, per MOS:IMAGELEAD's advice for lead images to be "of least shock value". But your call on whether it's an improvement over the current image. I'm not confident either way. I do definitely like your idea of using a different panel in the body to get more variety. A more pornographic scene does seem appropriate, since most pages in a given comic do depict sex. Colin M (talk) 00:37, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Done. Morgan695 (talk) 02:38, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Pronunciation

@Armadillopteryx: Is there any alternate way to present this information? I get that the way you've done it is proper formatting, but to effectively say "Kake (pronouced Kake)" isn't helpful for a layperson reader. Morgan695 (talk) 18:11, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Morgan695, that's the formal IPA representation of those phonemes. It just happens to look a lot like the standard spelling of the word (though it does contain the syllabic stress marker as well). The IPA template links to the article on Finnish pronunciation, which shows what each character sounds like. Using the IPA template is pretty standard for any article on a subject with a foreign name (other Finnish examples would be Tarja Halonen and Sauli Niinistö).

Though none come to mind at the moment, I'm pretty sure I've seen articles that present pronunciation in multiple ways (e.g. something like (pronounced KAH-keh; Finnish pronunciation: [ˈkɑke]). Maybe that would work? I think, strictly speaking, the first one should really use the English IPA template (which would not look much different from the Finnish), but you could make a case for IAR if you think it's more helpful to readers to use a different format. Armadillopteryx 18:44, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Okay, I'll try that and see if it prompts any objections. Thanks! Morgan695 (talk) 20:12, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

@Morgan695: I did some digging and found Template:Respell, which renders the pronunciation you added in a more formal way. Per the relevant MOS section and the template documentation, it has to be preceded by Template:IPAc-en. I made a bold edit and added both. Is that okay for you? Feel free to rv if not. Armadillopteryx 01:28, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Name origin

@Morgan695: Not sure if you want to include this in the article, but "Kake" is basically the Finnish equivalent of "Charlie". It's the nickname version of the Finnish cognates of Carl/Charles (Kaarle, Kaarlo, Kalle) and Caleb (Kalevi). I can't find any English sourcing for this, but I could get some in Finnish, such as the first citation in w:fi:Kake (nimi). Armadillopteryx 03:24, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Armadillopteryx: Thanks for letting me know! I think it would need to be substantiated by a source to be included in the article; Hooven merely states that the name is "a Finnish nickname with the same general macho overtones that "Butch" has in English". Morgan695 (talk) 18:26, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Morgan695: Would you like me to dig up a Finnish-language source? The one in the fi.wiki article I linked substantiates the claim. Armadillopteryx 19:52, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Armadillopteryx: If you could find one, that would be great! Morgan695 (talk) 00:25, 14 July 2021 (UTC)