Talk:June 2024 Ukraine peace summit

draft WikiProject Peace

If you are interested in coordinating with other Wikipedia editors on peace-process-related articles, then have a look at User:Boud/Draft:WikiProject Peace, use it as a guide, edit it, and see if you can work effectively with others interested in building these sorts of Wikipedia articles. There are plenty of key articles that are missing, such as arms control in Europe, arms control in Asia, arms control in Africa. Peace processes including monitoring, people, institutions, legal and other documents, confidence-building - street protests alone are insufficient (and in this case, street protests seem to have not played a significant role - though if you can find sources on that, go ahead and use them). Boud (talk) 18:49, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Global Peace Summit

First Global Peace Summit in June Switzerland to host 'high-level' Ukraine peace summit in mid-June, says Russia will not attend Volodymyr (talk) 10:41, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

References

Requested move 9 May 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 00:15, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

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June 2024 Ukraine peace conference → Global Peace Summit – For International relations: Global Peace Summit. Volodymyr (talk) 07:54, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Global Peace Summit: The presidents of Ukraine and Switzerland agreed to hold the first Global Peace Summit in June Switzerland to host 'high-level' Ukraine peace summit in mid-June, says Russia will not attend Volodymyr (talk) 07:54, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

• Comment. Today English-language sources indicate that the name "Global Peace Summit" is better. Title criterions: "Article titles are based on how reliable English-language sources refer to the article's subject". Wait a few days. --Volodymyr (talk) 13:31, 11 May 2024 (UTC) – Changed to "comment" per WP:RMCOMMENT. In move requests, nomination implies support. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 13:58, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose a title change right now and Wait a few weeks. It is not yet clear if there is a single most commonly used name of the summit. Global Peace Summit risks being too ambiguous to satisfy the Recognizability title criterion in the long term. For example, in the year 2034 or 2044 it's unlikely that people who hear the term "global peace summit" will think primarily of the June 2024 Russian-invasion-of-Ukraine global peace conference, since there have already been many international peace conferences and peace congresses during the 19th and 20th centuries, and there could be more Russian-invasion-of-Ukraine global peace conferences that follow the June 2024 one, and there could be more global peace summits during the 2020s, 2030s and 2040s for other parts of the world (e.g. a Horn of Africa 'global' summit concerning the Ethiopian and Sudanese wars). The current title of June 2024 Ukraine peace conference is intended to be descriptive. In a few weeks' time a common title may emerge in media coverage, so waiting until then will avoid wasting time trying to decide on a long-term name right now. (I might update my arguments if someone presents convincing evidence based on sources in favour of one particular name.) Boud (talk) 13:28, 9 May 2024 (UTC) (clarify Boud (talk) 14:09, 9 May 2024 (UTC))

  June 2024 Global Peace Summit

  title

  Is such a name possible? Volodymyr (talk) 15:06, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

  or

  June 2024 Ukraine Global Peace Summit Volodymyr (talk) 15:17, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

  Capitalisation would only make sense if there's a clearly defined official name. The Swiss federal ministry organising the meeting has so far used lower case high-level conference on peace in Ukraine and Swissinfo has used lower case a high-level Ukraine peace conference, a peace summit, "The conference aims...". The UA presidency clearly wishes to use Global Peace Summit, but the host is Switzerland, and the wider usage (e.g. media) may, or may not, choose to use the same name chosen by the UA Presidency. Kyiv Independent says peace summit (lower case) and cites the Spanish PM writing Peace Conference for Ukraine (capitalised). MaiNichi says Ukraine peace summit in Switzerland in June and an international leader-level meeting in Switzerland next month to explore measures to achieve peace in Ukraine (rather long) and "Summit on Peace in Ukraine" (capitalised and quoted).

  I see no evidence of a well-established either official name or common name. (Keep in mind WP:GOOGLEHITS: search engine counts are only a weak guide for common usage.) Boud (talk) 17:58, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

  Today. Summary: Ukraine peace summit June 2024.

  (English-language sources, title criterion). Volodymyr (talk) 04:23, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

• Support changing the title to June 2024 Ukraine peace summit (while waiting a few weeks to see if the UA presidency's official name or another common title emerges), on the grounds of:

  Precision: the conference is clearly going to include heads of state and government, so the word summit is more specific for this type of conference, decreasing ambiguity;

  Recognizability: the term summit does does seem to appear more often in response to itself in the search string in the top SearXNG categories=news hits compared to searching on conference with the same parameters or another SearXNG instance;

  Consistency of style: events that need a date in the title generally have the date at the beginning, unless it is in parentheses at the end for a recurring event. Boud (talk) 20:36, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

References

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

English-language sources, title criterion

Global Peace Summit
English-language sources:

1. Official President of Ukraine. By name «Global Peace Summit» found 203 results,
2. Ukraine peace summit
3. Ukrainian Peace Summit
4. Summit on Peace in Ukraine Federal Department of Foreign Affairs (FDFA)
5. Ukraine is preparing a global peace summit of state leaders
6. First Peace Summit for Ukraine

Volodymyr (talk) 13:46, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

References

Ukraine peace summit

Ukraine peace summit in Switzerland, in relation to the Russo-Ukrainian War, is planned to be held in Bürgenstock Resort on 15-16 June 2024. The international conference follows a series of four earlier international meetings, and will be hosted by the Swiss president Viola Amherd.

I want to edit first sentence per WP:REDUNDANC Volodymyr (talk) 08:41, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Your proposed sentence makes no change in relation to WP:REDUNDANCY. Your proposed changes do not improve the English. Boud (talk) 14:30, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

How to improve? Volodymyr (talk) 15:41, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Ukraine peace summit in Switzerland ... Volodymyr — Preceding unsigned comment added by Volodymyr Lensky (talk • contribs) 15:41, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Starting the sentence like that doesn't make sense in English. I (and others) can't propose any improvements to fix problems unless you say what the problems are. Boud (talk) 20:11, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

References

Participating states and international organizations, quote

Switzerland has invited over 160 delegations of heads of state and governments to the Global Peace Summit and international organizations (the UN, the G20, the BRICS, etc.), as well as the Vatican and the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople (religious representatives). Volodymyr (talk) 07:54, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

References

Official title exists but is not common

We have an official title for the planned event: Summit on Peace in Ukraine. It's rather awkward in English, so whether or not the mainstream media switch to using the official title or instead continue to use a variety of more natural equivalents is something we will have to wait to see. Recent sources used in the article include Peace Summit or Ukraine Peace Summit or Global Peace Summit; Switzerland peace summit or Global Peace Summit; Ukraine Peace Summit. The UA presidency - which is not the host - seems to reject the Swiss official name in English, instead preferring Global Peace Summit or Peace Summit or Summit for short. When enough editors arrive here and look at what emerges from the sources, we'll see if a move request is worth trying. Boud (talk) 18:10, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

@Boud, Isn't the summit in Ukraine this year a single event, unlike the January one which was part of a series of meetings? If so, is mentioning the month even needed in the article's title? StarkReport (talk) 15:49, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

@StarkReport: To me it seems clear that the intention is that this is just one more in more or less the same series, with an upgraded prestige as a "summit" with many heads of govt/state and bigger media headlines, aiming at concrete progress in confidence-building in the broad international community - and indirectly with some elements of Russian administration - but with no pretence that it is going to give a "final breakthrough". The FDFA states clearly the Swiss POV that the overall peace process must involve Russia (which makes sense). Since the organising of this "summit" apparently took 5 months, it's possible that the only "summit" for 2024 will be this one, but predicting that seems like WP:CRYSTAL to me. We currently have and to jointly develop a plan on how to include both Ukraine and Russia in a later peace process in the Aims section - that will presumably consist of a mix of "meetings", "conferences" and maybe more "summits". Boud (talk) 21:11, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

I see. StarkReport (talk) 02:23, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

@Ahonc: Please see WP:OFFICIALNAMES and read the above. If you feel that the either the name you used or the awkwardly worded Summit on Peace in Ukraine on its own (without the date) would achieve consensus as the common name under the WP:TITLE criteria, then please see WP:RM for guidelines on how to make a proposal to seek consensus. There are obvious reasons in English why media choose to use a simpler version of the name - it's usually not up to us to override common usage. Boud (talk) 18:32, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

If it helps illustrate the point: Wikipedia cannot force the mainstream media to write United Mexican States as the name of the country immediately south of the United States of America, so the title of the relevant article is Mexico, not United Mexican States. Boud (talk) 18:51, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

90 states? Confirmable?

The main text reads "As of 27 May 2024, 90 states and organisations had confirmed participation." While citing this.

Said link was Ukraine news agency interfax, and did not say what were the 90 states in particular.

The main text might better be modified as "According to Interfax-Ukraine, Zelenskyy said that 90 states and organisations had confirmed participation as of 27 May 2024." Tornapart history (talk) 08:12, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Fair point. I don't think we need attribution to Interfax-Ukraine, since it's unlikely that they're going to misquote Zelenskyy on the number that he stated, but attribution to Zelenskyy is justified - he's not a neutral party.  Done Boud (talk) 23:54, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

New reports state potentially only 78 states attending - agreed that Zelensky is not a reliable or neutral source in this matter as he has a personal stake in making the event seem as large as possible.

Report per Radio Free Europe (US/UA biased source):

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/participation-ukraines-global-peace-summit-074900680.html 32.220.170.116 (talk) 23:45, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

RFE is a reliable source, especially in the co text of European pilitics, thus can and must be cited preferably, as opposed to other media, which has no connection to the European political agenda whatsoever. AlasdarVan (talk) 16:35, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Radio Free Europe is literally a propaganda outlet for the US government. As Westerners, it therefore aligns more closely with our general beliefs and ideas, but mistaking it as a free and unbiased media source is blatantly incorrect. 32.220.170.116 (talk) 20:18, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Logo

The official media page has this non-free logo. Although the logo is non-free, it quite likely could be uploaded to the English-language Wikipedia (not Wikimedia Commons) in a reduced-resolution version if someone follows the guidelines at WP:LOGOS. See the guidelines there: the logo would only be usable on a small number of en.Wikipedia articles - especially this one - where it is specifically justified with a non-free use rationale for each article. Boud (talk) 16:52, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

See WP:TEXTLOGO and Commons:Commons:Village pump#Is the June 2024 Ukraine peace summit logo copyright-free? - this logo seems to be PD as it is a combination of a few words and simple geometric patterns. Boud (talk) 23:38, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Adding a map

I've made a map of the countries that signed the declaration or participated without signing. Could someone add it, please? https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Switzerland-ukraine-peace-summit-signed.svg MapperGuy87 (talk) 13:12, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

 Done, though I didn't check the list of countries, so anyone who wants to check should do so rather than just assuming that no errors were accidentally made. Discussion should best be at Commons:File_talk:Switzerland-ukraine-peace-summit-signed.svg.

Doing two colours to distinguish the signee-participants (83 by my count of s:Summit on Peace in Ukraine: Joint Communiqué on a Peace Framework, including organisations, which have to be subtracted from the count) from the non-signee-participants would be is good. Boud (talk) 14:49, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

The map does have two colors: blue for those who signed and light blue for those who didn't.

MapperGuy87 (talk) 15:06, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

True - I was in a rush ... . Fixed. Boud (talk) 17:09, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Legend??

In the "Participating states and international organizations" sections, this image is included, which includes two color shadings for different countries, but there's no legend provided, and the caption doesn't explain what the different colors mean either. Also no explanation on the image's description page. -2003:CA:8718:D65A:AA65:20BE:9878:3EC4 (talk) 16:14, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

 Done Please see Commons:Commons:Welcome to start learning about editing Wikimedia Commons. Boud (talk) 17:19, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Language use

The language use in this article for all means undermines the significance and importance of the event. During the summit, firm language actually used by significant majority of the participants in terms of Russia's war against Ukraine, which is not the case in this article - totally undermines the strong position of particupants over the invasion of Ukraine, which dueing this same summit was actually officially titled as "war" against Ukraine.

It is completly unacceptable to use the formulation there is at the moment.

Also the article doesnt cover the discussion on nuclear and chemical safety in Ukraine, and concerns over Russia's continuing threats of the use of nuclear weapons againts Ukraine, and its growing use of chemical agents agains Ukraine, including civilian infrastructure. AlasdarVan (talk) 16:43, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

On your first point, it's not up to Wikipedia to either support or oppose the significance and importance of the event. The language of the article is constrained by the information available in WP:RS. See WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. You are welcome to make a specific edit request, following the guidelines at WP:EDITREQ, and then anyone with the appropriate Wikipedia experience may either implement it or implement a modified version or explain why the proposed edit has problems.

Regarding nuclear safety, see June 2024 Ukraine peace summit#Nuclear safety and security. Boud (talk) 17:29, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Typo

Background > Russian proposal on the day prior to the summit "Ukraine had to "officially announces the abandonment of plans to join NATO."

announces should probably be "announce" Tosatur (talk) 17:31, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

 Done Boud (talk) 18:35, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Russian proposal on the day prior to the summit

Inclusion of other countries' leaders comments on Putin's peace proposal:

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz comment Speaking from Italy shortly before leaving for Switzerland, where a Ukraine conference opens on Saturday, Scholz said Putin's proposals - for Ukraine to abandon four provinces Russia claims, stop fighting and drop its ambition of NATO membership - were aimed only at distracting from the conference. "Everyone knows that this was proposal wasn't meant seriously, but had something to do with the peace conference in Switzerland," he told ZDF television in an interview.

Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni Italy's Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni called the Russian president's plan "propaganda" which effectively suggested that Ukraine "must withdraw from Ukraine".

British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak On Saturday British Prime Minister dismissed Putin's proposal at the Ukraine Peace Summit in Switzerland, saying he has "no real interest in a genuine peace" and that the summit aimed to discuss and uphold territorial integrity, among other issues.

European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen comment On Saturday, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen warned against any agreements that saw Russia remain in Ukrainian territory. “Freezing the conflict today, with foreign troops occupying Ukrainian land, is not the answer,” she said. “It is a recipe for future wars of aggression.” “Instead, we need to support a comprehensive, just and sustainable peace for Ukraine, one that restores Ukraine’s sovereignty and its territorial integrity,” she said.

U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris, representing the United States while President Joe Biden attended a fundraiser in California, said Putin's June 14 “peace” proposal was not a call for negotiations but a call "for [Ukraine's] surrender." AlasdarVan (talk) 20:34, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

WP:NOTFORUM

signed by 83 participants....right...4 of them is EU, EC, CE and EP....think foryourself... besides Cabo Verde, Monaco, Sao Tome and "Kosovo"

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8a0:7506:7b00:6467:2407:67a0:c7 (talk) 20:45, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

See WP:NOTFORUM. Boud (talk) 23:36, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Wikisource

How do I use link to en.Wikisource from Russian wiki? {{Wikisource}} template links to the Russian one:-(. Basicowes (talk) 02:49, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

[[wikisource:Summit on Peace in Ukraine: Joint Communiqué on a Peace Framework]] or [[wikisource:Summit on Peace in Ukraine: Joint Communiqué on a Peace Framework|some text in Russian]] should work on the Russian-language Wikipedia (for direct links, not for making a nice box). For more explanations, you could ask at ru:Обсуждение_шаблона:Викитека or read ru:Шаблон:Не_переведено and ask at the talk page there or ask at m:Help_talk:Interwiki linking on Wikimedia wikis. Boud (talk) 07:32, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Merci for the hint. Basicowes (talk) 08:51, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 June 2024

It would be useful to indicate in the article that, among the eight organisations participating in the conference, four did not sign the joint communiqué: the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the Organization of American States, the Organization of Security and Cooperation in Europe and the United Nations (comparison of two sources: https://www.eda.admin.ch/content/dam/eda/en/documents/aktuell/dossiers/summit-on-peace-in-ukraine/list-of-states-and-organizations.pdf / https://united24media.com/latest-news/list-of-all-the-countries-and-organizations-that-supported-the-joint-communique-of-the-summit-on-peace-for-ukraine-770) ZeusMinerva25 (talk) 10:53, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

I added some of the key participant-but-non-signing states according to a well-accepted WP:RS, The Guardian. The United24media source agrees with The Guardian regarding the notability of states that did not sign (though it lists UAE more prominently), but says nothing about the notability of a religious-political organisation or the three international organisations not signing. [This is unsurprising: with Brazil not signing, the OAS would have had difficulty signing; the OSCE includes the central Asian states, none of which participated, so signing would have not represented a clear broad consensus; and the UN has many different components (UNSC, UNGA, UNCHR, ...), only sent an observer.] My general impression from the mainstream media is that in relation to this summit, they consider the decisions of participating states as more significant than that of the organisations. Boud (talk) 13:52, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Incorrect map of participants

Correct map

Wrong world map

1. Colombia is not a participant, the day before it refused and publicly announced it;
2. New Caledonia is not a participant;
3. Rwanda and San Marino is a participant, but absent on the map;
4. The Vatican did not sign the communiqué.

91.210.248.212 (talk) 18:49, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

• It does look like Colombia withdrew; New Caledonia is legally part of France with three recent independence referendums formally rejecting independence, so as part of France it is a participant in the sense of internationally recognised states; Rwanda is a participant that withdrew its signature (see the FDFA ref in the article); San Marino signed (you're correct); the Holy See did not sign (you're correct). The blue-shades map has been updated, but please comment if there are still any errors based on the most recent list of signees. Boud (talk) 20:25, 17 June 2024 (UTC)