Talk:John Clarke (dean of Salisbury)

Requested move 10 October 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. An error (mine) prevented the uncontroversial technical request to move this page. I am correcting it now. See general discussion below. --John Cline (talk) 21:38, 10 October 2021‎ (UTC) 207.161.86.162 (talk) 23:19, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

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John Clarke (Dean of Salisbury) → John Clarke (dean of Salisbury) – In line with the principle of WP:BISHOP. 207.161.86.162 (talk) 03:33, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 16:05, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

• @207.161.86.162, Asukite, and John Cline: queried move request Anthony Appleyard (talk) 16:06, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
• If this does apply here, we should look at Francis Lear (Dean of Salisbury) and Hugh Pearson (Dean of Salisbury) as well. ASUKITE 04:15, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
• I don't see another John Clarke who also happens to de a dean. In such a circumstance, WP:PRECISION would have you disambiguate the subject as: John Clarke (dean). See Robert Steward (dean), William A. Graham (dean), George Benson (dean), and Martin Boehm (dean) for example. I don't think the page should remain at its current title, or be moved in accordance with your request. You can certainly discuss the move but I am contesting it here.--John Cline (talk) 06:42, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

  Disambiguating with "dean" would be like using "president" as a disambiguator for a president of a corporation. It's part of a job title that can be used for numerous purposes, so one can be, e.g., dean of a faculty of a university, dean of a diplomatic corps, dean of a seminary, dean of a cathedral, rural/area dean, etc. On its own, "dean" is basically meaningless. As WP:BISHOP indicates, we don't tend to disambiguate using part of a job title (like "archbishop", as opposed to "bishop" which refers to an order of ministry).

  For Anglican and Latin Catholic clergy, typically we disambiguate with the relevant order of ministry – bishop, priest, or deacon. When that is insufficiently precise, we either add the subject's nationality or denomination (e.g., "American priest", "Anglican priest") or we substitute their office (e.g., "dean of Canterbury", "archbishop of York"). (The latter is always done in the case of bishops, but not necessarily in the case of priests and deacons.)

  And even if we were to set all that aside, "John Clarke (dean)" would still be ambiguous with John Clarke (dean of Wells). Surely you aren't suggest that the dean of Salisbury is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for "John Clarke (dean)", are you, John Cline? 207.161.86.162 (talk) 20:35, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

  I'm sorry, somehow I missed seeing John Clarke (dean of Wells) on the disambiguation page. That's why I said: "I don't see another John Clarke who also happens to de a dean." Let me close this RM, and I'll move the page for you according to your original request.--John Cline (talk) 21:08, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.