Talk:Johannes S. Andersen

Death year

Not that it counts in the editing of the article, but I'm inclined to trust 1970 over 1968. After all, one of the citations is an interview of the subject from 26 October 1968. The article from 1 November 1968 is a book review, meaning that Bjørn Bjørnsen released his book in the late autumn, and I think the NBL biographer (which is Bjørn Bjørnsen) would have known it (probably through personal contact) if Johannes Andersen had died within 1-2 months of the book release. Geschichte (talk) 08:31, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

That was pretty much what I thought too. Especially seeing as Bjørnsen seems to have known Andersen personally. But, you know, when different sources say different things then that's what we gotta write. Manxruler (talk) 16:45, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Of course. Geschichte (talk) 21:55, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

FYI. The grave site database DIS lists his death year as 1970. It is not possible to link directly to the entry but you can search for ID number 1821499. The website is probably not a reliable source though, but the facts probably comes from the churches database. Would a a tombstone be considered a reliable source for a death year? Rettetast (talk) 00:34, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Actually this page says that the data is from "Kirkevergens database" so it should be considered reliable. Rettetast (talk) 00:42, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Interesting. And I think a photo of the tombstone would be very useful to have in the article. How do we go about citing this database as a source for 1970 as a death year? Manxruler (talk) 00:47, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

I had a go at including it as a ref. in the article. Don't know if I did it right, though. Manxruler (talk) 02:29, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Acquittals after the war

NBL and the article says that he was acquitted on several occasions after the war. This article from the not so reliable source implies that he was convicted for liquor sales in 1955. There is also a references to Dagbladet. Should this be checked up on? Rettetast (talk) 00:57, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

I'll look into that. SNO is of course a, shall we say, biased source, but they might be on to something. Manxruler (talk) 01:02, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Found it. 30 bottles of denatured alcohol in 1955. Ulateig mentions it. Perhaps it would be worth digging up that old Dagbladet article too? Manxruler (talk) 02:27, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Great work! Rettetast (talk) 09:57, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

I found some articles but not from Dagbladet, whose archives from the time are not open. Geschichte (talk) 14:16, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Påtaleunnlating

The article states that no charges were brought against Andersen for the murder of two german officers after the war. However NRK Sogn og Fjordande's fylkesleksikon says that it was reacted with a "påtaleunnlating/påtaleunnlatelse". While a påtaleunnlating does not come with any direct punishment, formally it is a confirmation of guilt but the prosecutor chooses not react with any further punishment. NBL only says that the case never came to court, which is correct. What does the other sources say. Maybe it should be clarified? Rettetast (talk) 10:27, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Will look into that. I seem to recall something about various high-ranking authority figures being behind Andersen not being punished. Andersen never denied killing the two Germans, he merely stated he was in shock after the loss of his wife, something which for example Ulateig finds hard to believe seeing as he was informed of his wife's death on 25 May 1945 and the killings took place in July of that year. I'll go see what the books have to say. Manxruler (talk) 16:33, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

By the way: Påtaleunnlatelse = Withdrawal of the charge. According to my dictionary, at least. Manxruler (talk) 20:21, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Hehe. I had to do some searching. I found decision of non-indictment. Rettetast (talk) 21:41, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Sounds good. Might be a better term. Well searched. Manxruler (talk) 21:55, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Johannes S. Andersen/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

On hold

• No dab links and external links check out ok. Ran the article through AWB and everything checks out ok there too. The article is very informative and was very interesting. I lined out a few things that were fixed by myself or another editor already but they are lined out below so you can see. Here are a few other things that I found that I recommend correcting before the article is promoted to GA.
  • In general there are some short choppy sentences and I think some of them should be combined. I fixed a few but there are quite a few more.
    • Difficult to know without examples. Geschichte (talk) 22:39, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
  • I notice in a couple places in the article there seems to be what is referred to as WP:weasel words such as in the last sentence of the Institutionalize section you say “According to Andersen it was this that led him to begin his criminal career.” Its typically discouraged from saying According to like this unless it a quote. I recommend rewording it.
    •  Done. I removed that sentence. You're right, it sounded somewhat weasly. Manxruler (talk) 01:11, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
  • I think it needs more info about his first marriage if possible. If possible it should be mentioned why his marriage was annulled. Was it due to his criminal activity? Also did she have the children before they got married or did they have them together? Do we know how many children they had, were they boys or girls or what their names were? What happened to them after? I assume they stayed with their mother but its not really clear. If not all of that info is available that’s ok but I think its currently a bit vague.
    • I'd like that information too, but I haven't been able to find it in any of the sources researched. Manxruler (talk) 01:11, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
  • The lede currently has references in it and per the MOS the lede should usually be reference free because that info should be in the article below and referenced.
    •  Done. Geschichte (talk) 22:39, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
  • There were some references should have an emdash vice a hyphen for page numbers. I see this for reference 18 and 36.
  • Some of the references are in Norweigan and I think since this article is on the English WP these refs should have the language=norweigen
    •  Done. Geschichte (talk) 22:39, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
  • I think the biographies section should be renamed to works and list the works that Anderson wrote.
    •  Done by someone else. Geschichte (talk) 22:39, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
  • the book in the Biographies section for Bjornsen should be moved to references if used (which it appears is not currently) or to further reading if not used.
  • The autobiography he wrote in the Biographies section should use the authormask option per template:cite book.
  • It appears that multiple reference styles are used in the references section. Sometimes the full reference is displayed such as with references 1 through 5 and sometimes its abbreviated like with 8 and 10. I think it should be consistent throughout. Especially in the cases were that reference is used multiple times.
    • Wouldn't that make the reference section unnecessarily large? I believed that that was a standard way of referring to book sources. For example I see that that's the system used over at USS Nevada (BB-36). One solution could be to move all the book references to their own section and then only include the abbreviated references in the references section. Manxruler (talk) 01:11, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
      • It should be marked that this article and USS Nevada doesn't use the same system. Over at Nevada (and many other GAs), all books are abbreviated in the first reference list, then written in full in a Bibliography section. (Only books though, not the Internet and newspaper references). I'd support that, and also merge Further reading as a subsection of Bibliography. Geschichte (talk) 13:19, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
        • Yes, I agree completely. Manxruler (talk) 19:34, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
          •  Done. Books moved to Bibliography section. Manxruler (talk) 19:54, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
  • Reference 1 seems to refer to a book and links to what appears to be a summery of the book on a book sellers page (this is a guess on my part because I cannot read Norse). If you want to list the book as a general reference that’s ok but if its going to be linked like this I think it should give page numbers for the various different reference points so the reader wouldn’t have to read the whole book to verify the info. This reference is especially problematic in my opinion and if possible you should try and use some other references to verify this info.
    • You are wrong here, assuming that we mean the same thing by "Reference 1". If you clicked the link to the work, Norsk biografisk leksikon, you would see that this is a biographical encyclopedia. Thus, the info on him doesn't span hundreds of pages; what you see via the web link is the entire version. Hence no page numbers either. It is one of the most credible sources for biographies that exist in the Norwegian language, so I don't see how it is problematic in any way. Geschichte (talk) 22:39, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
      • Ah, so it's the equivalent of the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography? Not being able to read Norwegian, it wasn't easy to tell that. Malleus Fatuorum 18:48, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
  • the article lacks the persondata template and I think that should be added.
  • I would like to see an image of some kind, even if an image of the individual is not available. Maybe of the orphanage or maybe of Møllergata 19, or the Grinni Concentration camp.
    •  Done. Adding photo of Grini concentration camp. Manxruler (talk) 01:11, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
  • In the later life section at the very bottom it states. “After the war he married Hertha Bergstrøm” This should be moved up towards the top of the section so its more in chronological order.
  • If any info is available regarding wether he had any children with his 2nd or third wives that would be good to add as well. Especially the third one. She is barely mentioned at all as though she is of no importance.
    • He had a son with wife no. 2, it's in the article. Manxruler (talk) 01:11, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
      • No son with third wife is mentioned in the biography (added something else about the wife). I don't find it likely either; he was 47-48 years old when they married and was in questionable health. Geschichte (talk) 18:37, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Reviewer: Kumioko (talk) 19:02, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

• Thank you for reviewing! I will try to adress some of it as the nominator could be on vacation. Geschichte (talk) 22:39, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
  • Doing my master thesis, actually. It's very time-consuming. Thanks for the review, I do appreciate it. And thanks to Geschichte for helping out. Manxruler (talk) 01:13, 26 March 2010 (UTC) **If possible I'd like for there to be a short break in the review process so that an attempt can be made to track the Bjørnsen book down and supply the information on Andersen's personal life, wives and the like. Manxruler (talk) 19:34, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
    • Of course, what do you recommend. Should I fail it and you can resubmit later. You can withdraw it and resubmit it later or if you have other suggestions I am open. Just let me know know what you want me to do. --Kumioko (talk) 19:38, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
      • The review has only been open for a day, and there's no strict time limit. If work is being done then that's great, no need to force the pace. Malleus Fatuorum 19:45, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
        • Thanks. While Geschichte goes hunting for the Bjørnsen book (my own local library is too remote and minute to have it in stock) I'm going to fix the book ref style too a.s.a.p. Just gotta find the time to sort through it, tomorrow in all likelihood. Manxruler (talk) 01:22, 27 March 2010 (UTC) Book refs fixed. Manxruler (talk) 19:55, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

All resolvable issues have been corrected and I have passed the article. --Kumioko (talk) 16:16, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Picture

Any chance to get a picture for commons? I have translated the article into german. Cheers Serten (talk) 19:03, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

(I moved the above question from original misplaced location in the GA review) Manxruler (talk) 20:08, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean, exactly. There's only a single image in the article, and that is at Commons. If you are asking if there are more pictures to be found, and moved to Commons, then the answer is: No, not last time I checked (which was during the work-up to the above transcluded GA review). Manxruler (talk) 20:08, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Hmm I would like to have on of Arnesen, thats the point. Serten (talk) 20:33, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Arnesen? Who? Manxruler (talk) 21:06, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

If you mean Andersen, we have tried, and failed, to find a public domain picture of him. Manxruler (talk) 22:36, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

I have asked at the hjemmeveren museum, but to no avail so far. BR Serten (talk) 23:00, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

If you mean the Hjemmefrontmuseet, they probably have photos, but they would need to release their rights to the image (other than attribution) for it to be possible to put it on Commons. Manxruler (talk) 07:02, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

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Lost in translation

Hi,
just checked Fjørtoft (ref 26. p 33) to confim my suspicions, that 'kjeller' is not part of the proper name of *Cheval'.
The animal hospital is named 'Cheval' only, and so " killing him at the animal hospital Chevals kjeller"
simply means that the victim was murdered in the basement ('kjeller' = 'cellar') of 'Cheval', the animal hospital.
The NO text may be confusing because there is a misplaced comma that leads to this misreading.
I'm changing the article text to reflect this.

Edit: Note that Fjørtoft has "Collberg" with a double L, not "Colberg"; however, comparative googling doesn't seem to support this.

Source: https://www.nb.no/nbsok/nb/0dd27e75a62d5c23d7b35c9f1f545827?index=16#33 .

I'm not changing that unless there is wide popular demand.//

T 88.89.217.90 (talk) 00:25, 18 February 2018 (UTC)