Talk:Jennifer Muñoz (Mexican footballer)

Requested move 23 September 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Closing requested move survey; pages moved to Jennifer Muñoz (Guatemalan footballer) and Jennifer Muñoz (Mexican footballer) respectively per evolution of discussion. Hmlarson (talk) 03:50, 19 November 2020 (UTC) Hmlarson (talk) 03:50, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

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• Jennifer Muñoz → Jennifer Muñoz (footballer, born 1996)
• Jennifer Munoz → Jennifer Muñoz (footballer, born 1993)

– MonFrontieres (talk) 00:02, 23 September 2020 (UTC) Relisted 13:16, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 13:35, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 18:00, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose - both born in US and 'soccer' would be more appropriate. GiantSnowman 18:03, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
  • Comment: @GiantSnowman:, they played for (and are citizens of) Mexico and Guatamala, where the sport is called 'football' and their surname is written 'Muñoz'. According to WP rules (by playing for NT), they are Mexican and Guatemalan footballers (in fact, if they have managed to have their own WP articles it was precisely because of their status as international (FIFA/CONCACAF) players). Also, your proposed combination ('Muñoz' + 'soccer') is wrong as the surname in US (as US citizens) is written 'Munoz' because the grammar from there is in English and does not use the 'ñ' letter (typical of Spanish).--MonFrontieres (talk) 20:37, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Support nom for both. As M.F said, they play for Mexico and Guatemala so footballer should be used. Had they represented the US, then I would've agrees with using soccer. RedPatchBoy (talk) 20:41, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose. Per Wikipedia:Article titles#Conciseness, the disambiguator "footballer" is unnecessary since both are footballers and there are no other women of the same name with a different profession. The years of birth are too close together to provide useful or conclusive disambiguation for searchers. Maternal names or national teams would provide more conclusive disambiguation. DrKay (talk) 13:11, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Comment: @DrKay:, they are not (primarily) 'soccer' players as they represent countries where the sport is called 'football'. Also, their maternal surnames (as their middle names as well) are not part of their WP:COMMONNAME. Sources: [1], [2] (Guatemala's Jennifer Muñoz); [3], [4] (Mexico's Jennifer Muñoz).--MonFrontieres (talk) 15:08, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Comment: @DrKay:, I could eventually accept that Jennifer Muñoz be moved to Jennifer Muñoz (born 1996) or Jennifer Muñoz (Mexican footballer) (instead of Jennifer Muñoz (footballer, born 1996)) and Jennifer Munoz be moved to Jennifer Muñoz (born 1993) or Jennifer Muñoz (Guatemalan footballer) (instead of Jennifer Muñoz (footballer, born 1993)). Now, to disambiguate using names that go against WP:COMMONNAME (e.g. Jennifer Justine Muñoz or Jennifer Muñoz Velázquez, in Jennifer Muñoz's case) or that include the word 'soccer' (when they are FIRST Mexican/Guatemalan footballers (by playing for NT), THEN American soccer players) is not fine for me.--MonFrontieres (talk) 16:49, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
  • The new pages would follow general NFOOTY convention.--Ortizesp (talk) 16:33, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Why does Jennifer Justine Muñoz Velazquez call herself Jennifer Justine Muñoz Sandoval and why do both she and Jennifer Justine Sandoval Muñoz play for the same team, live in the same city and both hail from Montebello (though one from Montebello, New York, and one from Montebello, California)? DrKay (talk) 15:56, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

• • Comment: @DrKay:, Facebook is not a reliable source.--MonFrontieres (talk) 16:46, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Uninvolved comment Hello MonFrontieres If that is the official account of the subject in question(verified). Facebook may be used to determine the name the subject uses and the common name. Cheers Megan☺️ ^{Talk to the monster} 18:27, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

• @Synoman Barris: Neither of those two accounts have the verified tick; also, they are personal accounts (wouldn't a fanpage be better?). I mean, the name that she put on the fanpage (if she had one) would be the one with which she wants to be known to all audiences; whereas in a personal account, she may well be identified with a non-professional name (in this case, her full name) since the purpose of the personal account (whatever, hers or anyone in the world) is to relate to family and friends. Instead of using her personal account as if it were a fanpage (if that's what she's doing), she'd better create a fanpage (it's free) and have Facebook verify it. I would not trust personal account names, especially if they are not verified.--MonFrontieres (talk) 18:54, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
• Move to Jennifer Muñoz (Mexican footballer) and Jennifer Muñoz (Guatemalan footballer) respectively. Years of birth do not meaningfully disambiguate them, being born only 3 years apart, and do not help readers. Also note that WP:NCPDAB discourages dabbing only by birth year: Where the disambiguation can't be resolved in a straightforward manner by such more specific qualifiers, e.g. for the two notable poker players called David Baker, date of birth can be added in this format: Name (qualifier, born YYYY). No such user (talk) 07:35, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose initial request, but Support what No such user said. The countries are more recognisable, esp. as the birth years are only three years apart. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 19:19, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
• @MonFrontieres: what are your thoughts on No such user's suggestion to Move to Jennifer Muñoz (Mexican footballer) and Jennifer Muñoz (Guatemalan footballer) respectively? Hmlarson (talk) 03:31, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
  • @Hmlarson: Fine. After all, I was the one who first suggested those alternative renamings in a comment on 16:49, 4 October 2020 (UTC) (see above). So, if there are more consensus with those two, I then support them.--MonFrontieres (talk) 03:41, 19 November 2020 (UTC)