Talk:Huizhou Chinese

Etymology

Wiktionary doesn't have a definition stating that "Hui" means a language. Instead, it says it means "badge" or "insignia." Can someone add an etymology for why this language is named what it is, using the character that it does? Badagnani 00:08, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

It comes from Huizhou. There is no single theory on where that in turn comes from. In general the etymology of Chinese toponyms (as with anywhere else) is a murky affair. -- ran (talk) 01:31, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

New name

"Huizhou Chinese" seems a very poor title for this page. Where are the sources stating that "Huizhou Chinese" is the most commonly used term in English for this dialect? Badagnani (talk) 01:19, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Ethnologue, for one. kwami (talk) 06:08, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

[1]. Badagnani (talk) 22:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

I just noticed that they don't even use "Hui" as an alternate, and usually they're pretty thorough. In English, "Hui" as an ethnonym almost always means 回. kwami (talk) 22:58, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

So it would seem comparable to "Chaozhou Chinese," though that term really isn't used in any literature either. Badagnani (talk) 23:03, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Do you mean the Huizhou part, or the Chinese part? Since this may be a primary branch of Chinese, it would take Chinese per the naming conventions. The Huizhou part is because abbreviating it to Hui as is done in the Chinese literature would be overly ambiguous in English. kwami (talk) 23:15, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Huizhou wikipedia

Are there Huizhou wikipedia in incubator?--Kaiyr (talk) 14:53, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Error with Ethnologue?

Ethnologue says that Huizhou has 50 million speakers, although upon closer inspection this is obviously impossible.--Prisencolin (talk) 22:04, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're looking at. The "Chinese, Huizhou" page on Ethnologue (18th edition), which is linked next to the population figure in the infobox, says 4.6 million in the 2000 census, though it goes on to give figures for the five subgroups that total to 3,419,000. Kanguole 10:40, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

This Huizhou Chinese entry I found on the ethnologue website lists the number of speakers as 50,200,000. The page seems to indicate it is from 18th edition. The link currently referenced on this page gives a number which suspiciously similar to the population of Huizhou city, around 4.59 mil. It seems they may have gotten this number from incorrectly assuming they are the same, even though the entry itself notes this distinction near the bottom. This may also explain the discrepancy between the total listed and the sum of all the subgroups.--Prisencolin (talk) 20:26, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

That page says it's the 19th edition; it does look pretty wild. The 4.6M figures are surely a coincidence: the figure for the city is from the 2010 census, whereas the one in the 18th edition is cited to the 2000 census, when the city would have been much smaller. They probably got the subgroup figures from a different source, though of course none of their sources are identified. Kanguole 21:38, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

Hatnote

@Kanguole: I don't know what you are specifically specifically referring to in WP:HATNOTE, but there seems to be a lot of confusion reguarding these names. The ethnic group is the current target of the Hui Chinese redirect, and the this page shares its WP:USEENGLISH name with the city.--Prisencolin (talk) 19:02, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

The most relevant are WP:NAMB and WP:HATEXTRA. The purpose of a hatnote is to direct readers who have arrived at the page by mistake to the one they were really after. Someone looking for this article might well find Huizhou or (via the "Hui Chinese" redirect) Hui people instead, so those articles should have hatnotes pointing here. However, people looking for either of those articles won't be searching for "Huizhou Chinese", so this article shouldn't have a hatnote. Kanguole 23:57, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Okay I've read WP:HATNOTE over a several times and I still don't understand your reasoning. I mean you have to admit the terms are at least similar, and enough so that we may as well is IAR in this case, especially since its just a hatnote.--Prisencolin (talk) 20:23, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

I pointed you to WP:NAMB, which says not to disambiguate titles that are not ambiguous (like "Huizhou Chinese"). As explained there, hatnotes have a specific purpose; they're not general discussions of similar names, unless someone looking for those articles might have typed the title of this one. That seems rather clear. Kanguole 21:46, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

If ever a page about Huizhou Hakka dialect is created, there will really be a need for disambiguation. In my honest opinion it is in fact unclear to some whether "Huizhou Chinese" refers to this, the city or Muslims. You see this in the fact that past edits to this page have attempted to cite the population of the other groups as the number of speakers. To people, it is unclear what the "zhou" part means or whether removing it changes the meaning.--Prisencolin (talk) 00:53, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

I'm not sure which edits you're referring to, but in any case that's not the purpose of a hatnote. It's the job of the lead to make clear what the article is about, and the lead here does seem to do that. Kanguole 00:05, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

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Article name

It's "Huizhou Chinese" and not "Huizhou Dialect" so that we can avoid confusion with the other Huizhou dialect of Huizhou, Guangdong, am I correct? Because the topic of this article is only a measly dialect, not a totally separate Chinese, right? Woshiyiweizhongguoren (talk) 14:12, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

It's one of the ten top-level dialect groups identified in the Language Atlas of China, and all of them have Wikipedia article names of the form "X Chinese" (except Pinghua). Kanguole 15:01, 24 March 2019 (UTC)