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Talk:Hoffman Construction Company

Latest comment: 22 days ago by CNMall41 in topic NPOV issue
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NPOV issue

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Latest comment: 22 days ago19 comments3 people in discussion

This entire page is essentially written off of the book published by Hoffman itself which causes it to be presented in the way they want and only what they want, because what they wouldn't want wouldn't be written in that book. Graywalls (talk) 22:37, 13 April 2019 (UTC) Removed obviously Hoffman-written material. Phil.kennedy.pdx (talk) 23:40, 15 April 2020 (UTC)Reply

Materials you removed would suggest otherwise. You went beyond and removed properly referenced media coverage about the company as well, which was not explained in your edit summary, or your comment above, therefore, it has been reverted. Graywalls (talk) 05:07, 16 April 2020 (UTC)Reply
As an outside reader with no expertise in architecture, Hoffman, or the Pacific NW, I think this page no longers merits the neutrality tag and removed it. @Graywalls restored it, citing the project list as "grossly over-representative." I'm not sure what that means. If you think the list is too long, why not remove the least notable and then remove the tag? (I'm assuming that an encyclopedia listing would focus on only the more noteworthy projects. ) Monkeywire (talk) 17:13, 22 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
The current layout and categorization of the project list was due to the act of public relations editing, highlighting and showcasing in the titling, chosen by company side. Graywalls (talk) 17:21, 22 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
Perhaps it was -- I have no idea! -- but it's not like this business doesn't merit a page. So how do you think it should be organized instead? I see our work as neutralizing promo tone and improving listings so that we can remove these tags. Monkeywire (talk) 17:45, 22 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
Please review the edit history, and contribution history of IPs/user shown at the hat note, and registry info on those IPs. Graywalls (talk) 18:09, 22 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
That doesn't answer the question of how you think it should be improved Monkeywire (talk) 18:11, 22 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
The project portfolio needs to be cut down significantly and not chosen based on what Hoffman wants presented. It's easy enough to find sources that confirms Hoffman built it, but it was entirely Hoffman effort to categorize them the way it was done in the article. Graywalls (talk) 18:17, 22 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
No idea why this was on my watchlist but here I am. Graywalls is correct about the portfolio section. Wikipedia is not a place to keep a list of all projects performed by the company. If there is some significance to them then they could be included. I have seen and done this with several other pages in Wikipedia. The COVID section could also be rewritten as it looks like someone using the page as a sounding board and per WP:NOCRIT. I would recommend removing everything after the history section and get consensus on the wording of the COVID information and what projects should be included. Until then, do NOT remove the tags.--CNMall41 (talk) 21:00, 22 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
WP:NOCRIT is an essay and I don't know how much community support it currently has. WP:NPOV calls coverage in proportion to prominence of coverage in reliable sources. So, we can't use Twitter or Change.org or some obscure activism sites to feature contents, but criticism written based on reliable, neutral, mainstream corporate media is in line with NPOV as the journalist actually wrote about it. Company connected personnel have repeatedly tried to purge it. Graywalls (talk) 00:45, 23 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
@CNMall41:,
I pulled out what you recommended, then put it in talk for now. Graywalls (talk) 01:35, 23 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
Where citations demonstrate that this firm led on a project substantial enough to have its own Wikipedia page, I'd vote to leave it in -- perhaps put in alphabetical order. Monkeywire (talk) 01:45, 23 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
WP:VNOT, verification they worked on a project does not guarantee it be included. The building they worked on having a Wikipedia page does not mean that we keep it listed in other Wikipedia pages either. What is the significance of this company's work on the building? Was it covered in detail in multiple sources or were they simply mentioned as the construction company? --CNMall41 (talk) 02:33, 23 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
Note what I wrote: Where citations demonstrate that this firm led on a project... By citations I assumed reliable and independent. Monkeywire (talk) 02:44, 23 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
"Where citations demonstrate that this firm led on a project" - This is verification they led the project. What is the significance of "THEIR" work on the project? Feel free to start a new thread to obtain consensus on any you feel should be included. --CNMall41 (talk) 02:48, 23 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
WP:V = Anything included must be directly verifiable.
WP:VNOT = Verifiability doesn't entitle inclusion.
Sometimes it's black and white through common sense, sometimes its not. Often time, public relations editor will try to push for inclusion to increase their product or search ranking prominence through association with more notable stuff, or dropping notable names.
Magazines need interesting contents to sell and tabloid papers need advertisement clients and they need interesting contents to get people to read it and see the ads. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. The purpose is quite different from magazines and tabloid ragsheets.
Ed Sheeran is known to do impromptu performance and surprise visits and some of those places include hole in the wall local spots. Some of those local spots have a Wikipedia page even though many should not. You'll very likely hear about Sheeran's surprise visit at Betty's hole in the wall Bar & Grill in the local tabloid paper or the entertainment section of the daily newspaper. There won't be doubt about the fact that this happened. Those sources are reliable for the fact. What we're ABSOLUTELY not going to do is put anything on the Ed Sheeran article about the random local bar. Even the appropriateness of including it on the local bar's article is questionable, but it's highly likely that marketing effort involved in the bar will tenaciously fight to name drop every single A list celebrities that have ever visited the bar and carpet bomb the Wiki article with tabloid paper references. That BS happens all the time for articles on music venues and bars. I recall one instance where someone snuck in a service provider/vendor name into Statue of Liberty article. It stuck around for a while, but it was most definitely sanitized when I noticed it. Does this give you an idea of what "due" weight is? Graywalls (talk) 03:34, 23 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Convenience break

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@CNMall41:, do you have any suggestion on the wording of COVID section pulled out down below? Graywalls (talk) 01:14, 24 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

I looked at the three sources and I am not sure I have a suggestion to be honest. If I read the sources correctly, it looks like they had restrictions in place but workers were not following. Basically the references are mentions and nothing about the result of the complaint filed. --CNMall41 (talk) 04:00, 25 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
I looked closer at the page again today. The whole thing is a mess to be honest. I may take a crack at cleanup if I am able to find anything in Newspapers.com. For the above, I am thinking maybe a single sentence that sums up the social distancing but not sure how to word it. The sources report that the restrictions were in place but that the workers weren't following them. That would be like saying Walmart is responsible for people not wearing masks in the store during COVID. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:17, 25 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

PUBLIC RELATIONS EDITING

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Latest comment: 6 months ago1 comment1 person in discussion

If you're from Hoffman, or working for a communications company hired by Hoffman, directly editing the article is strongly discouraged, and doing so without disclosure of paid editing is prohibited. Graywalls (talk) 02:55, 13 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Parked contents pending re-introduction consensus

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Health and Safety

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Portland Tribune's Joseph Gallivan named Hoffman's 1715 S.W. Salmon St and Lincoln High School sites as those still carrying on business as usual during the COVID-19 pandemic.[1] A worker interviewed by Willamette Week on the Hayward Field renovation project site reported that Hoffman's strict social distancing instructions were not being followed in the field. The same newspaper article also discussed a complaint filed against Hoffman with the Oregon OSHA on March 30, 2020. The complaint concerned the project at Phil and Penny Knight Campus for Accelerating Scientific Impact and stated that "Multiple employees are working in lifts next to each other, and lunch shacks are packed full of employees sitting next to each other".[2] Daily Journal of Commerce also identified Hoffman's 5 MLK, a mixed-use 17 story project near the east end of Burnside Bridge as a site where an OSHA complaint has been registered over social distancing and lack of hand-washing stations.[3]

Completed Major Projects

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Civic / Cultural

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Healthcare

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High-Rise

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Athletics

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Hayward Field at the University of Oregon in Eugene, Oregon in 2022

Education

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Transportation

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Commercial and Mixed-Use

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Manufacturing

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Aviation

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References

  1. ^ Gallivan, Joseph (March 17, 2020). "Social distancing? Not at these Portland construction sites". Portland Tribune. Retrieved April 6, 2020. Plenty of workers were at Lincoln High School building their new campus and at the Hoffman Construction site across the street, at 1715 S.W. Salmon St
  2. ^ Jaquiss, Nigel (April 1, 2020). "Oregon's Construction Industry Is Chugging Along Like It's Still 2019. Some Workers Say That's Dangerous". Willamette Week. Retrieved April 6, 2020.
  3. ^ Slothower, Chuck (April 3, 2020). "Workers raise coronavirus safety complaints". Daily Journal of Commerce. Archived from the original on April 5, 2020. Retrieved April 7, 2020.
  4. ^ a b c Siemers, Erik (May 24, 2013). "Hoffman straddles line between risk and 'crazy risk'". Portland Business Journal. Retrieved 20 May 2014.
  5. ^ "Current Projects | Multnomah County Central Courthouse". www.oeg.us.com. Retrieved 2017-10-16.
  6. ^ Brenneman, Kristina (November 5, 2000). "A new generation of players are influencing the Portland scene". Portland Business Journal. Retrieved 21 May 2014.
  7. ^ Kipp, Curt (February 12, 2003). "Town Center Park a go; civic park a maybe". Wilsonville Spokesman.[permanent dead link]
  8. ^ Carter, Dan (November 10, 2000). "Piece by piece the Spruce Goose comes alive". Daily Journal of Commerce. Retrieved 21 May 2014.
  9. ^ Carter, Dan (September 28, 2000). "Expo Center growing exponentially". Daily Journal of Commerce. Retrieved 21 May 2014.
  10. ^ Devereaux, Charlie (August 9, 2002). "Hoffman ready to roll on amphitheater". Daily Journal of Commerce. Retrieved 21 May 2014.
  11. ^ a b Libby, Brian (October 28, 2002). "Hoffman's Wayne Drinkward says the key to success is doing things well". Daily Journal of Commerce. Retrieved 22 May 2014.
  12. ^ Goldfield, Robert (July 7, 2010). "OHSU building snags major award". Portland Business Journal. Retrieved 20 May 2014.
  13. ^ Schmidt, Brad (January 3, 2014). "A look back at The Portland Building's troubled past: Portland City Hall Roundup". Retrieved 20 May 2014.
  14. ^ Post, Nadine M (August 14, 2020). "Drastic Rebuild Resurrects Graves' Landmark Portland Building". www.enr.com. Retrieved 2020-10-07. By 1988, there was evidence of efflorescence. Then, the building started leaking around the windows. Despite repairs, the conditions worsened... The original painted-concrete envelope leaks started about five years after the original building's completion in 1982. Numerous attempts over the years to plug the holes failed.
  15. ^ Williams, Christina (June 28, 2012). "South Waterfront's Mirabella nets sustainable design awards". Portland Business Journal. Retrieved 1 April 2016.
  16. ^ Culverwell, Wendy (January 7, 2011). "Gerding-Edlen surrenders Bellevue Towers". Portland Business Journal. Retrieved 20 May 2014.
  17. ^ Culverwell, Wendy (January 22, 2010). "One Main Place to sell for $57 million". Portland Business Journal. Retrieved 20 May 2014.
  18. ^ "Urban wind turbines go up in Portland". Portland Business Journal. August 13, 2009. Retrieved 20 May 2014.
  19. ^ Finnemore, Barry (November 19, 2006). "Renovating an icon: A fresh Meier & Frank Building". Portland Business Journal. Retrieved 20 May 2014.
  20. ^ a b c d Michelson, Alan. "Partners: Hoffman Construction Company". Pacific Coast Architecture Database. University of Washington. Retrieved 21 May 2014.
  21. ^ Culverwell, Wendy (May 7, 2014). "Ankrom Moisan, Hoffman get $150M Daimler HQ job". Portland Business Journal. Retrieved 20 May 2014.
  22. ^ McKinlay, Theresa (October 16, 2006). "Work on Pacwest Center begins in October 1982". Daily Journal of Commerce. Retrieved 22 May 2014.
  23. ^ Culverwell, Wendy (October 30, 2013). "How do you restart a 30-story project? Call in the marching band!". Portland Business Journal. Retrieved 20 May 2014.
  24. ^ a b Theen, Andrew (March 18, 2013). "Hillsboro's $15.2 million ballpark will cost more, have fewer permanent seats than originally planned". The Oregonian. Retrieved 20 May 2014.
  25. ^ Giegerich, Andy (February 11, 2011). "Knight arena passes audit muster". Portland Business Journal. Retrieved 20 May 2014.
  26. ^ Back, Brian J. (February 17, 2002). "Lewis & Clark's library takes home the green". Portland Business Journal. Retrieved 21 May 2014.
  27. ^ Staff (July 1, 2007). "Willamette U Plans Academic Building". Northwest Construction. 10 (7). The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc.: 5.
  28. ^ Friedman, Gordon (2019-06-06). "Portland retail tax applies more broadly than thought, igniting opposition at City Hall". oregonlive. Retrieved 2020-07-17.
  29. ^ Press, The Associated (2016-12-04). "UO to settle lawsuit over cracked dormitory floor". oregonlive. Retrieved 2024-05-20.
  30. ^ Miller, Brian K. (July 4, 1999). "Local team honored for work on light-rail station". Portland Business Journal. Retrieved 21 May 2014.
  31. ^ "New Postoffice in Use". The Oregonian. November 24, 1936. p. 15.
  32. ^ Siemers, Erik (February 21, 2014). "New Nike campus contractors same as the old ones (mostly)". Portland Business Journal. Retrieved 20 May 2014.
  33. ^ "Bank Project Contract Let". The Oregonian. September 24, 1957. p. 12.
  34. ^ Carter, Dan (July 13, 2001). "Hoffman, R&H work on Brewery Blocks". Daily Journal of Commerce. Retrieved 21 May 2014.
  35. ^ Manning, Jeff (May 16, 2014). "Construction boom: Hoffman, Andersen represent Oregon on list of largest U.S. construction companies". The Oregonian. Retrieved 20 May 2014.
  36. ^ Fields, KJ (October 28, 2002). "Intel's Ronler Acres projects give Corridor boost". Daily Journal of Commerce. Retrieved 21 May 2014.
  37. ^ "Boeing: 777X Composite Wing Center's outer shell complete". www.boeing.com. Retrieved 2018-02-23.
  38. ^ Culverwell, Wendy (May 2, 2010). "Port of Portland moves to 205,000-square-foot HQ". Portland Business Journal. Retrieved 20 May 2014.
  39. ^ Carter, Dan (February 15, 2002). "Sabre constructs precisely with steel". Daily Journal of Commerce. Retrieved 21 May 2014.
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