Talk:Hilda Hilst

Women in Green mini-review

From the request at Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Green/20-Minute Article Assessments. I'll make notes against each of the Wikipedia:Good article criteria. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:13, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

1. Well-written.

• "in the estate, where she would invite several artists and intellectuals to live in." is a bit clunky
• "He struggled with Schizophrenia", "suffering with mental health," - might be challenged per WP:SUFFER. Wikilink to schizophrenia at the first instance (currently the link is at a later instance).
• Consider rewording "She made the Sun House into a sort of artists' hub"
• "impersonated a journalist to, unsuccessfully, meet Marlon Brando" - maybe something like "impersonated a journalist, in a failed attempt to meet Marlon Brando"?
• "remained a constant fixture on the city's nightlife scene for several years" and "the bustling city life"" feel a bit informal.
• Publications: the examples at WP:BIBLIOGRAPHY have the year in parentheses. Optionally, add some further publication details such as ISBNs.
• It looks to me like the names of works are lacking some capital letters, but I haven't checked fully against Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Titles of works and MOS:PEOPLANG.
• Generally, I didn't find any major issues with the prose. Expect to get some improvement suggestions during a GA review, which may include a suggestion to combine short paragraphs.

2. Verifiable with no original research.

• Some statements need citations, e.g. The third para of Poetry, the last para of Theater and prose, and "Since 1995 her personal files have been in IEL-UNICAMP and are available to researchers worldwide."
• Depending on the reviewer, you might be advised to remove citations from the lead. See MOS:LEADCITE.
• Sources generally look high quality and appropriate. I haven't checked whether they support the text.
• WP:SCHOLARSHIP says "Masters dissertations and theses are considered reliable only if they can be shown to have had significant scholarly influence." Is this the case for Teodoro, Ana Luiza Menezes Moura (2019)?
• Check AGÊNCIA FAPESP and UMASÓMÚLTIPLAMATÉRIA against MOS:ALLCAPS.

3. Broad in its coverage and 4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.

• Seems OK at face value, but I haven't read sources so can't give a proper assessment.

5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.

• No issues.

6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio

• I'm not entirely convinced by the rationale given for the use of File:Hilda Hilst's notes.png. Isn't there a level of "sufficiently creative authorship" that invalidates the Licensing? Also, if retained, I think the caption should be expanded as it's not clear to me why the image is included. (MOS:IMAGERELEVANCE, Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Captions).

Thanks for all your work on the article, MaterialWorks. The main issue for me is the lack of citations for some of the statements. I think if you fix this and just run through the other points above, then the article should be in rasonable shape for a GA nomination. You might get some suggestions for restructuring the material; some reviewers have really helpful ideas about this. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:13, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the review! Will work on those issues as soon as I'm able to. — MaterialWorks 12:21, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Hilda Hilst/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: The Blue Rider (talk · contribs) 23:24, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

General

• @MaterialWorks: the article is almost passable just a problem: this sentence, Hilst's visits with her father... seemingly lost its source. — The Blue Rider 01:03, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

   Done. — MaterialWorks 01:11, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

  Can you give me the quote being used? I can't seem to find the text supporting the sentence. — The Blue Rider 01:23, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

  I swear there was something in it supporting that sentence, but I can't find it anymore. I've removed that sentence, couldn't find a good source for it.

• @MaterialWorks: what makes source #5 reliable? Also, it does not cover that Hilst studied at University of São Paulo nor that Lygia introduced her to contemporary Brazilian poetry. It further does not cover anything of the Early career's section. — The Blue Rider 01:19, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
• Source #8 (Musa Rara) is used thrice and is a blog!! It needs to be substituted.

• After searching into it, it seems Musa Rara is actually a magazine. — MaterialWorks 16:10, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

• The sentence Her mother was also institutionalized at the end of her life for dementia... also lost its source?!

• Done. — MaterialWorks 16:10, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

@MaterialWorks: I think everything is all set. Passing the article, good job! — The Blue Rider 16:18, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Lead

• The second sentence, She is lauded...., isn't mentioned in body of the article and has no sources so I suggest its removal. Especially since such a strong statement in the first paragraph raises NPOV red flags.

   Done.

• Add a wikilink to mysticism.

   Done.

• Add a wikilink to female sexual liberation.

   Done.

• Her admiration for James Joyce and Samuel Beckett isn't mentioned in the body of the article. Further, fractured reality, stream of consciousness are also never mentioned in the «Themes» section! This seems important so do add this information.

   Done.

• Per MOS:LEADCITE, citations in the lead are generally avoided except in cases of statements likely to be challenged. With that in mind, remove/reallocate the two citations.

   Done.

• Add a wikilink to Jaú.

   Done.

• Add a wikilink to São Paulo (the city).

   Done.

• Add a wikilink to estate.

   Done.

• Per sourcing wording, Sun House → House of the Sun.

   Done.

Life and career

Early years

• How did her parents' conditions, their relations with mental health, and oppressive conservative social standards affect Hilst's writing?

   Done? Not sure if it sounds good.

  Is this theme explored further down in the article? If so, then it's fine to leave it as it is, otherwise I think it would be worth clarifying what experiences in concrete she included in her books. The Blue Rider 13:14, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

• Add a wikilink to dementia.

   Done.

• Too many «hers» in a row in Her visits with her father gave her unusual. Consider rewording it to: Her visits with her gave Hilst an unusual or Hilst visits with her gave her an unusual.

   Done.

• What's a «treatment of the mind»?

   Sentence rewritten.

• Add a wikilink to surrealism.

   Done.

Poetry

• Per MOS:SUFFER, it's better to replace «ailing» with a more neutral word.

   Removed. Don't think that word (or a more neutral one) is necessary at all.

• Why did she want to meet with Marlon Brando? I assume she was a fan of him, if so, did he affect her writing?

  I'm not sure why; it's not really mentioned in-depth in sources. I'm not aware of him affecting her writing.

• Add a wikilink to Sumaré.

   Done.

• What other artists and intellectuals? How did that influence her?

   Partly done. Can't find anything about how it influenced her.

• What did the Report to Greco said that made her want to return to Campinas?

   Done.

• Add a wikilink to Campinas.

   Done.

• Do you think Dante Casarini is worth a red-link?

  I don't think he's notable enough to need one.

• Was she dating said sculptor?

   Done.

• Her father died of what? Is it known?

  I can't find anything about it.

• After reading the section I'm left without knowing what her poetry was about, I highly recommend for some additional information to be added in that regard.

   Question: Wouldn't this make the themes section redundant? Maybe this section should be renamed to something else, maybe "Early career"?

  I wasn't aware of such section, my bad! Agreed that «Early career» seems a better naming, good idea :)

• I think the phrasing of the following sentence is a little off. I suggest: themes of necessary isolation to achieve knowledge of the human being → themes of self-isolation to achieve knowledge.

   Done.

Theater and prose

• Hilst had a prolific output as she → Hilst was particularly prolific as she

   Done.

• Two of the most important Brazilian authors to do so → Two prominent artists to do so

   Done.

• What consisted her experiments with the electronic voice phenomena? Does she belief in the spirits? If so,

  Will expand later.

• Per MOS:PARA, single-sentence paragraphs are generally avoided, so I suggest the junction of the two paragraphs.

   Done.

Later years

• Is the increasing financial pressure due to the Latin American debt crisis? If so, this could be mentioned.

  Don't think it necessarily is, but I expanded it a bit anyways.

• What did the Programa do Artista Residente consist of? Teaching?

   Clarified.

• Add a wikilink to tetralogy.

   Done.

• Why did she described the first book as "porno chic"?

  I couldn't find he actually mentioning it like that anywhere, so I've removed it.

• Per MOS:PARA, single-sentence paragraphs are generally avoided, so I suggest the junction of the last paragraph with the above.

   Done.

Death

• Add a wikilink to femur.

   Done.

• translated and became available in English → translated to the language

   Done.

Themes

• Remove comma in beginning in 1958, with Adoniran Barbosa.

   Done.

• As of 2018, she has been referenced over twelve hundred times in books, magazines, academic journals, and others. → She has been highly referenced in books, magazines, academic journals and others.

   Done.

• Per MOS:SEAOFBLUE, two wikilinks in a row are usually avoided. As so, I suggest the removal of the sexuality wikilink.

   Done.

• Why is pornography put under quotations marks?

   Removed.

• Add a wikilink to metanarrative.

   Done.

• Add a wikilink to soliloquies.

   Done.

• Add a wikilink to simulacra.

   Done.

• If there are other narrative features worth mentioning then do so, otherwise remove «and others».

   Done.

Honours

• Remove the duplicated wikilink to Jabuti Prize.

   Done.

• Prêmio Anchieta is described in the article as «one of the most important in the country at the time». Do you it deserves a red wikilink?

   Added.

• Add wikilink to Brazilian Association of Art Critics

   Done.

• by the same Associação Brasileira de Críticos de Arte → by the same association

   Done.

• Add an interlanguage wikilink to pt:Câmara Brasileira do Livro.

   Done.

Translation

• Everything looks fine here.

Publications

• Are the translations given the official ones or made by you?

  They all have translations done by me. The ones with official translations have it listed after English translation: , as per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lists of works § Other second-language titles.

• Do her books have many editions? If not, provide the ISBN for the «Prose fiction» section!

  I've added the ISBN for some–I couldn't find it for all of them–of the reissues (most of the original books don't have an ISBN).

Stability

• Last edited on 20 Oct. and no edit war was recently in place, the article is stable.

Images

• I'm not particularly well versed in this matter, but I think the copyright of the the signature image belongs to Hilda Hilst, so the editor, Gambeti, has no business in publishing it in the public domain, right? The other image has an appropriate copyright tag, it is relevant to the article and has a suitable caption.

  Going off of commons:COM:SIG US and commons:COM:TOO Brazil, I don't think it passes the threshold of originality for it to be copyrighted. I've tagged it with a more appropriate copyright tag. — MaterialWorks 11:49, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

  Thank you. The new tag is appropriate, passing the relevant criteria. The Blue Rider 12:04, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

Copyvio

• Earwig's Copyvio Detector points to 29,1% due to publishers names (a lot of sources are books).

Sources

• All sources numbers are from this version. Checked sources #2, #4, #9, #10, #13, #17, #24, #27, #30 and #35.

• Source #4 calls Casa do Sol "House of the Sun". Further, the source says she built a second house, Casa da Lua though it doesn't expand much on that. Is there any other potential source that does?

• I've changed all the instances of "Sun House" to "House of the Sun". I couldn't find any sources expanding on the second house, so I just added a small sentence mentioning it.

• Can't access the archive for #9. Is it up for you? Also, what makes quarterlyconversation.com reliable?

• It's down for me. I'll replace it with other sources as soon as I can.

•  Done.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Vaticidalprophet talk 06:25, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that Hilda Hilst impersonated a journalist to meet Marlon Brando, and asked him about Franz Kafka's works? Source: https://www1.folha.uol.com.br/ilustrada/2018/06/primeira-biografia-mostra-devocao-de-hilda-hilst-a-projeto-literario.shtml (in Brazilian Portuguese; limited access)
  • Reviewed:

Improved to Good Article status by MaterialWorks (talk). Self-nominated at 21:19, 26 October 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Hilda Hilst; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith Interesting:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: Hilst is one of my favorite writers. I got excited upon seeing the DYK nom; the article itself did not disappoint. Excellent work expanding and improving to GA, No copyright vios. AGF on Portuguese sources, but it's similar enough to my native Spanish that I could understand and confirm. A pleasure to read. Thank you so much! —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 05:51, 28 October 2023 (UTC)