Talk:Gwrych Castle

Pronunciation

Pronunciation of Gwrych in both Welsh and English are already present, they are clean, clear and correct versions therefore they do not need updating, if anyone feels like updating the article to alter how the voice-clips are displayed, please use those currently in use as of the date of this message. Hogyncymru 01:37, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Untitled

The article has been tagged as unsourced by a bot, as far as I can tell. Which is true and should be changed. I copied the text from another Wikipedia article and it should be expanded anyway. Also, can somebody link the books to appropriate Wikipedia book search page - I'm unsure on how to do this... Poeloq 01:15, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

In the next few weeks I will adding details about the construction and artistic inspiration of this building. These are drawn from a unpublished Master's dissertation (Hogeschool Antwerpen) which I will cite in full in due course. Augusta2 (talk) 21:19, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

There was once a dolphinarium in the castle, which might be worth mentioning: www.marineanimalwelfare.com/Dolphinaria/Web%20Pages/Scarbourgh.htm#asa — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.64.158.182 (talk) 09:48, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Gwrych Trust Suggested Edits

Hi there - I am just suggesting some edits from our history log. Any issues, let me know, but it includes references where some are missing or are dead, and includes other references and updates. Thanks! Jake.

~

"Gwrych Castle is a Grade I listed 19th-century *country house near Abergele in Conwy county borough, Wales." – it is a 'castle' not a country house, but it replaced a country house that stood there.

"Gwrych Castle was erected between *1819 and 1825 at the behest of Lloyd Hesketh Bamford-Hesketh, grandfather of Winifred Cochrane, Countess of Dundonald." - this is wrong. Gwrych Trust’s historian put the construction to between 1818 and 1822 and it was built as a memorial to Lloyds mother’s ancestors, the Lloyds of Gwrych. It was built on the site of an Elizabethan house called ‘Y Fron’ (translation ‘Rounded Hill’) which had fallen into dereliction by 1810. The main building had been completed by the time Lloyd Hesketh Bamford-Hesketh married Lady Emily Esther Ann Lygon, who was the daughter of the first Earl of Beauchamp, in 1825. There is also a great deal missing about the architectural significance of Gwrych. A lot of established and well-known architects and designers of the time were involved with the construction of the Castle and Estate. A great example is the fact that the knowledge and skill of Charles Augustus Busby and Thomas Rickman was used by Hesketh in the overall design and the specifics of the cast-iron windows. In the 1840s, Henry Kennedy was brought in to expand the Castle with a new bedroom wing, staircase, and porch, while George Bullock and the Craces sorted interior design. When Lloyd passed away the castle was inherited by Robert Bamford-Hesketh and his wife Ellen Jones-Bateman, Winifred’s parents. In the 1870s they hired George Edmund Street to design a family chapel and several churches and schools in the local area for them. They also planted the formal gardens, which included the still-standing Mokey Puzzle and Yew Trees. The Countess was the sole heiress when her parents passed away in 1894, and it became her official residence. Her husband, "Douglas Cochrane, 12th Earl of Dundonald", gained international acclaim during the ‘Relief of Ladysmith’ in the Boer War and had a great military career – which is referenced on the ‘Relief of Ladysmith’ page. Meanwhile, Winifred brought up her two children and got involved in Welsh affairs including becoming one of the founding members of the Anglican Church in Wales (as referenced in ‘The Rise and Fall of Gwrych Castle’ by Mark Baker). Detmar Blow along with Charles Ernest Elcock added the famous marble staircase and renovated the state apartments between 1909 and 1914.

"In 1928, Douglas Cochrane, 12th Earl of Dundonald, purchased the castle for £78,000, selling the contents to meet the cost.[1]" – this is also wrong (I don’t the BBC had a copy of the original book). Douglas Cochrane bought back the Castle in 1925 and sold off the contents in 1928 to recoup his loses.

"Following the war, the castle *left the Dundonald family and was open to the public for twenty years." – it was sold by Lord Cochrane, 13th Earl of Dundonald, in 1946 for £12,000 along with the remainder of the estate (ref: http://www.archiveswales.org.uk/anw/get_collection.php?inst_id=1&coll_id=20243&expand=). He sold it to Mr Robert Rennie of Chester, who sold it to Leslie Salt in 1948 who opened it to the public for twenty years. It had many owners and uses after this time.

"In the early 60s it was an occasional venue for the famous motorcycle Dragon Rally and in the 70s it was used as a centre for medieval re-enactments, attracting tourists with such events as jousting and mock banquets.[citation needed]*" - citation: http://chrislad.worldonline.co.uk/page62.html includes pictures and personal accounts of the time

"Clayton Hotels spent about half a million pounds on its plans, clearing the site and rebuilding areas.[6]*[dead link]" – Link update - http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/future-abergeles-gwrych-castle-remains-2757965

"*EPM UK Ltd obtained fresh planning permission in November 2012 from Conwy County Borough Council for the castle to be converted into a luxury hotel with 75 bedrooms and associated facilities.[7]" – Edwards Property Management, or EPM UK Ltd, are the "new developers", but they operated under the name 'Castell Developments' at the time. More information can be found about their Planning Permission and plans here (although it should be noted that the individual who wrote them is no longer with the company) - http://castelldevelopments.com/gwrych-castle-development-proposals/

"*Myths and Legends of Gwrych Castle by M Baker" – this is now available on Kindle - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Myths-Legends-Gwrych-Castle-Estate-ebook/dp/B00JOQ5N9E/

"Note: The *Gwrych Castle Trust Archive and the National Library of Wales hold important materials relating to Gwrych, including numerous original plans and various designs for the stained glass windows." – 'Gwrych Trust' or 'Gwrych Castle Preservation Trust' not Gwrych Castle Trust. JakeB of GCPT (talk) 20:02, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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Architecture

Hearst Castle estate

This needs a section on Architecture, which I shall do shortly. What would be of great assistance is a plan/diagram of the castle and its environs. As an aside, why doesn't the infobox have a map? I'd really like something such as the example opposite but they require considerable skill, which I don't have. Does the trust have anything that could be used, even if only as a basis? It is so large, and rambling, that a plan would really help the reader. KJP1 (talk) 15:06, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

On this point, the infobox lists George Edmund Street among the architects. But there's no mention of him in the article, nor is Gwrych listed in our article on Street, nor does Cadw mention him. Does any source do so? KJP1 (talk) 15:21, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

@KJP1, the website does for "family's chapel" and some schools and churches, not read the rest of the site to find if it refers to a chapel on the house's grounds. DankJae 18:22, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

DankJae - that's interesting. Why don't either Cadw or our Street article make mention of this? I cannot wait until I can finally unpack my Pevsners and see what they say. KJP1 (talk) 18:25, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

DankJae - Having now unpacked the books, I've taken out Street, and Detmar Blow. Neither Hubbard, nor Cadw, not RCAHMW mention either of them, and I would be very surprised if they had all overlooked them. They are simply too prominent for those sources not to mention them if they were involved. I appreciate the Castle site does mention Street (and Blow?), but to be honest, I think the three above score more highly in the RS stakes. Not infallible, certainly, but close. As an aside, the Infobox used is "Military installation". The castle was never any such thing. Would Historic site be better? KJP1 (talk) 14:40, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

p.s. I see above that User:JakeB of GCPT mentions Crace. They'd certainly be worth mentioning with a source. KJP1 (talk) 14:50, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

(edit conflict)@KJP1, if nothing can be found for Blow then makes sense to cut. Concerning Street, understand how more respected sources don't mention him, although I do expect the house itself to know a little more about itself than a pan-Wales org. Although there can be concerns if it is a promotional connection. Hope a source can be found in the future for them though if unable to now.

Concerning the infobox changing, would it add extra parameters sorely needed and/or cover the ones used now? If so, sure, no strong opinions, as it wasn't a military installation. Disappointed when I found out this isn't even a castle tbh.

It appears @Hogyncymru added Street and Blow here, Hogyncymru is there a source for it? Unless someone earlier had added it? DankJae 14:57, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Sorry for the edit conflict. This mentions Street, and Crace. Of course the trouble with journos is that their source is often ... Wikipedia! I've seen chunks of stuff on houses in various South Wales media that have given me a great sense of déjà vu! But Binney's very reputable. I am just off to check Brodie's Dictionary of British Architects. KJP1 (talk) 15:04, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

This shows that Street was working for Hesketh in the area at the right time, so makes it much more credible that he did work at the castle. I'll stick him back in, based on Binney and the castle's website. Now, we just need something for Blow. KJP1 (talk) 15:17, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Well, I don't think the Vic. Soc. generally goes in for mis-advertising.... and they might want their money back if Blow didn't do the stair. I think there's enough. We now just need it in the body of the article with sources. KJP1 (talk) 15:29, 9 September 2024 (UTC)