Talk:God and Satan (song)

Requested move 12 July 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. I sympathise with Dohn joe because this should have been reverted when he asked at RM/TR. However, there is a consensus here that the song is not the primary topic of the term "God and Satan". The dab page will be moved to the base location. Jenks24 (talk) 16:20, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

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God and Satan (song) → God and Satan – revert bold move - no other WP topic of this name – Dohn joe (talk) 22:37, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

@Dohn joe: This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:45, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

• "God and Satan" without disambiguater means the two major spiritual beings / religious concepts called "God" and "Satan", not a routine pop music song. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:45, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
  • That's true of the two articles God and Satan; however, the term God and Satan has no other article at Wikipedia. —  AjaxSmack  01:43, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

• Support per nom and for procedural reasons (to undo this recent undiscussed move). God and Satan already redirects to the song, anyway. —  AjaxSmack  01:43, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose - this song should never have been inserted into such a common subject. And God and Satan does not "already redirects to the song, anyway", I created a dab page allowed users to find the more likely subjects Book of Job and God as the Devil in addition to this song. The dab page God and Satan (disambiguation) was moved by the same user above who wants the song to be the primary topic of "God and Satan"

22:38, 12 July 2015‎ Dohn joe (talk | contribs)‎ . . (60 bytes) (+60)‎ . . (Dohn joe moved page God and Satan to God and Satan (disambiguation): prep to redirect base name to only en.wp topic) (thank)

22:38, 12 July 2015‎ Dohn joe (talk | contribs)‎ . . (34 bytes) (-26)‎ . . (redirect to only en.wp topic) (undo | thank)

The user's summary "(redirect to only en.wp topic)" shows the user does not understand the difference between "article title" and "topic" which is WP:DISAMBIGUATION and WP:PRIMARYTOPIC work, not title, repeat NOT TITLE. God and Satan are a TOPIC discussed in Book of Job, and God as the Devil and also of course Satan.

And again in Google Books clearly "God and Satan" refers to God and Satan (or the perceived relationship between God and Satan. It does not refer to a 2008 UK song of which the article says "Chart performance : On the week of physical release, the single entered the UK singles charts at 36, making it the sixth single from Only Revolutions to reach the top 40, and the least successful of these." This song is not the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC of God and Satan (disambiguation) and I request the dab page be put back at baseline. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:49, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

• Support since this is the only encyclopedic topic with the title God and Satan and because the initial move was undiscussed. Calidum T|C 04:48, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Calidum insertion of the article into the title search space was also undiscussed. "this is the only encyclopedic topic with the title" is the same as saying "ignore topic follow title", but WP:DISAMBIGUATION and WP:PRIMARYTOPIC say follow topic not title. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:44, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

• Support - There is no article under that name and if a hatnote were added to deal with the two terms, that should suffice. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:50, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose - We may not have another article now, but there are other valid topics under the title per the dab page. If it can be shown that a substantial majority of users who search for "God and Satan" are looking for the song, then I would agree that is the primary topic and a hatnote would suffice. But I suspect that there the theological implications of the title suggest that this is not the case, so in the absence of any evidence I would redirect "God and Satan" to the dab page. Rlendog (talk) 14:49, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
• Support - no need for unnecessary disambiguation. If another article about a topic of a similar name is to be created in the future, we can always move this page again. Sovereign Sentinel (talk) 14:51, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose: The concept of "God and Satan" is not primarily a barely-notable song. —BarrelProof (talk) 18:42, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose – if in reference to the song, I believe it should be disambiguated, as I doubt it's what most people are searching for when looking for the term. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:48, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
• The best option would be to keep it as it is and move "God and Satan (disambiguation)" back to "God and Satan", since most people are likely to be searching for the religious topics. As a second option, I support moving God and Satan (song) to God and Satan; no point in disambiguating an article from its own, simpler redirect. Move it back and leave a hatnote to God and Satan (disambiguation). Victão Lopes ^Fala! 20:33, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose per other editors. When a reader searches for this phrase they may be searching for passages and stories from the Bible or the Quran or other scriptures, about God and Satan. Khestwol (talk) 02:51, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
  • The redirect from God and Satan should be fixed. What topic is most likely to be sought when a reader types "God and Satan" in an encyclopedia? Khestwol (talk) 03:07, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
  • I suggest to move God and Satan (disambiguation) to God and Satan. Khestwol (talk) 03:23, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
  • This move was undiscussed. Should be reverted, I think. Khestwol (talk) 03:30, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

    This move was the undiscussed move. I moved to restore as close to the previous status quo as we could get. This RM will decide whether to keep the previous (five-year long) status quo or not. Dohn joe (talk) 13:36, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

• Comment. This article was created as "God and Satan" in 2010, and occupied the basename until three days ago. There are no other topics called "God and Satan" on WP. No one - no one - interested in the Book of Job will search for it using "God and Satan". Sending our readers to a dab page when there is an actual topic with a name is just going to make their experience worse. We're supposed to try and make navigating this encyclopedia easier. Please also see MOS:DAB. Dohn joe (talk) 13:45, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

I highly doubt that the song is the topic a reader seeks when they type "God and Satan", unless this is a high trafficked article, which apparently it is not. The dab page can be obviously expanded, BTW. Khestwol (talk) 14:00, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose, per comments above. The song itself uses a '&', so the title here is actually inaccurate. Randy Kryn 14:17, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose. A song (where there is dispute over the stylization of the name) by a barely known artist should, in Wikipedia, take precedence over a theological concept that has been around of thousands of years! It is a sadness that there isn't an article about the theological concept. --Richhoncho (talk) 09:18, 19 July 2015 (UTC). _{Changed vote to what I actually meant. --Richhoncho (talk) 10:13, 19 July 2015 (UTC)}

• Oppose. A barely (if) notable song ambiguous with a prehistoric concept. And deliberately so. Commercial products should not be allowed to claim high profile titles. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 06:32, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose Doubtful that the song is the primary topic of interest for this search term.--KTo288 (talk) 18:18, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

  User:KTo288: could you point to the other topics on WP called "God and Satan" which would be competing for primarytopic here? Thanks. Dohn joe (talk) 18:42, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Please fix the song title first. Apparently it doesnt use "and". Khestwol (talk) 19:46, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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