Talk:Gheorghe Caranda

Notability

Gheorghe Caranda sole claim to fame appears to be that he was the first Roumanian to die in an airplane. Unfortunately that doesn't make him sufficiently notable to keep a page about him.NiD.29 (talk) 03:30, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

@NiD.29: Please do not use speedy deletion criterion for notability on articles like this. Any article that clearly makes a notability claim cannot be speedy deleted, since the "A7" criterion solely applies to articles that make no apparent attempt to explain how something is notable. If something makes a notability claim and you disagree that it meets the general notability guidelines, then please use proposed deletion or take it to a deletion discussion. Thank you, Steven Walling • talk 06:22, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, first time doing this, am changing it. NiD.29 (talk) 20:14, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

NiD.29 According to you, Romanians "were a minor backwater whose sum total contribution to humankind has been negligible at best". (Please learn how to spell Romania and Romanian - i.e. not Roumania and Roumanian). Caranda died flying an imperfect Farman. If somebody compiles a list of aviation deaths, Caranda will be at least on top 50. Simiprof — Preceding unsigned comment added by Simiprof (talk • contribs) 04:08, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Which was said in response to an official Roumanian government policy of protochronism (ie inventing history in an effort at national self-aggrandizement), and my statement was an attempt to actually get the Roumanians (ie: you) who blindly reverted every correction to talk (after previous refusals to do so). As a result that page is now much more factual and encyclopedic and most of the ignorant silliness is gone. Despite what you think, I have nothing against Romanians, but I do have a problem with lies and propaganda, particularly when it is added passed off as truth, and alas Roumania has a long history of just this sort of nonsense, with a strong nationalist/fanboi type culture that stubbornly refuses to relinquish myths without being bludgeoned over the head. Do they have a monopoly? Not by a long shot - and I go after absurd errors wherever I find them, and will use any tactic to get changes made, even offending people sometimes.

Roumania is a perfectly valid English spelling, as are Rumania and Romania.

Even if someone eventually compiles a list of people who died in aircraft accidents - that still won't make him notable (or anyone else whose sole claim to fame is dying).

By the way, when are you going to learn to sign your posts? It really isn't all that hard. Just 4 tildas. Like ~~~~. Sigh. NiD.29 (talk) 06:26, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

"Roumania is a perfectly valid English spelling, as are Rumania..." Indeed, if you live in the 1920s! -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:10, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

And considering when Caranda lived... - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 10:17, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Not really relevant, otherwise the article on William Shakespeare would be peppered with thees and thous! We don't use archaic spellings or language. -- Necrothesp (talk) 19:34, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Sorry NiD.29. You are a biased editor that promotes (against the mission of wikipedia.org) a Western-World centered history. Simiprof (talk) 18:42, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Please refrain from making personal attacks. Thank you. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 01:56, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

British English is often archaic in the US, since Americans can't spell (to be fair the spellings were changed to help the struggling US publishing industry against British imports), but they are still used in other English countries, and we are talking about names, not grammatical structures like thees and thous. Romania and Roumania are both common spellings seen in recent publications. Not sure why this is an issue. If you want to change it in the article knock yourself out.

Thank you for finally signing your comments Simiprof (and for yet another personal attack).

I have no biases other than against lies and propaganda. There is plenty of history outside of the west (and a lot that needs expanding), and I have in fact expanded many such articles. I've found that the more authoritarian a country has been, the more rabid fanbois desperately perpetuating pet myths.

None of which helps answer the question about how notable someone is whose sole claim to fame is dying in a second-hand airplane while still trying to learn how to fly.NiD.29 (talk) 07:50, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Not sure where you're coming from. I haven't seen any English-language publication using any spelling other than "Romania", apart from those produced before the 1940s. Would you give us some examples? I'm really not sure whether your first comment was claiming British English was archaic or American English was (I'm British, by the way). As to your last point, that's why we're having an AfD! The discussion here isn't it. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:41, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

References

Caranda Memorial

The inscription reads: "To Lieutenant CARANDA GH. who at the birth of Romanian Aviation, baptized it with his blood of a hero." So the memorial is dedicated to Caranda only. Simiprof (talk) 16:29, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, didn't realise there were two different monuments involved.NiD.29 (talk) 05:10, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Caranda's Piloting School Affiliation

I am not sure if Gheorghe Caranda was with Bibescu's Cotroceni piloting school. Bibescu's students were flying Bleriot monoplanes. Farman biplanes were flown by the students from Chitila Piloting school. See also articles: Romanian_Air_Force#History and George_Valentin_Bibescu. Simiprof (talk) 16:33, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

I was wondering about two different schools being mentioned - was he instructing at the second school - or still learning?NiD.29 (talk) 05:12, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

I found this reference http://ampt.ro/monument/lt-av-erou-caranda-gheorghe that indeed says that Caranda died at Chitila, so he was member of Chitila Piloting School. The confusion is due to the fact that the monument commemorating Caranda's death is placed close to where Cotroceni Air Field used to be, and where Bibescu's students were receiving training. Since Bibescu learned how to fly at Bleriot's school in Pau, the planes used at Cotroceni Piloting School were all Bleriot monoplanes. Farman planes were assembled and used for student pilot training at Cerchez's school in Chitila. Simiprof (talk) 02:36, 29 December 2013 (UTC)