Talk:George Pechell Mends

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:16, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that in the age before photography, drawing skills were a requirement of junior naval officers? Source:https://www.mallgalleries.org.uk/learning/resources/history-marine-art)
  • ALT1:... that George Pechell Mends witnessed United States steam frigate USS Missouri burning at Gibraltar 26 August 1843 and that his sketch was the basis for a painting by Edward Duncan? Source: https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/140844.html

Created by Broichmore (talk). Self-nominated at 16:35, 12 March 2020 (UTC).

• Reviewed: Makoti Khawula

• Broichmore, How does this hook relate to George Pechell Mends? Please provide a more interesting hook, a QPQ, and add more references to the article. Thanks. ~~ CAPTAIN MEDUSA^talk 16:53, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

• CAPTAIN MEDUSA Hi, this seems much more complicated than when I was last here. This QPQ thing, do I get credit for helping out on a DYK for en:Louis B. Anderson? See Template:Did you know nominations/Louis B. Anderson Broichmore (talk) 17:24, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

• Broichmore, Yeah that is exactly what a QPQ is. You get QPQ when you review a did you know nomination. ~~ CAPTAIN MEDUSA^talk 17:41, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

General eligibility:

• New enough:
• Long enough:
• Other problems:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing:
• Neutral:
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
• Other problems:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited:
• Interesting: - new hook needed that is related to the subject.
• Other problems:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Can be approved after the comments above have been resolved. ~~ CAPTAIN MEDUSA^talk 17:07, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

• @Broichmore: You need to respond to the points raised above, propose a new hook that includes the name of the article, and reformat the references that are bare urls. After that you can ping CAPTAIN MEDUSA so that he can finish the review. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:48, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

@CAPTAIN MEDUSA:Comments addressed, thanks -Broichmore (talk) 17:50, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

@Broichmore: they are not cited. ATM. ~~ CAPTAIN MEDUSA^talk 13:23, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

@CAPTAIN MEDUSA:Think it's sorted now, thanks -Broichmore (talk) 13:41, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

ALT2: ... that English sailor George Pechell Mends works are featured in the National Maritime Museum?

ALT3: ... that George Pechell Mends entered the Navy as a volunteer on his father's ship?

: These are the hooks that I find interesting. New reviewer needed to approve the hooks. The sources can be found on the article (AGF). Thanks. ~~ CAPTAIN MEDUSA^talk 12:18, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

• -Article was recent enough, obviously long enough, neutral, hook is cited in the article, no copyvio/closeparaphrasing (excepting bald facts), the hooks are within character limit, accurate, sourced, and possibly interesting to a broad audience. Passing ALT2 by a margin? serial ^# 12:07, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

• Hi, I came by to promote this, but the article hardly looks ready for the main page. The lead is too short and does not show his notability. Any mention of his art career is confined to image captions that are not sourced. ALT2 and ALT3 are very ho-hum. Is there any way to expand and source the section under "Art career" and then propose a hook along the lines of ALT1? Yoninah (talk) 17:58, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

• I have expanded the lead. As the subject is known mainly for his art, a picture hook would be best. I suggest the following. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:50, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

HMS Conqueror wrecked at Rum Cay

• ALT4 ... that Captain Mends painted incidents during his service in the navy, such as the wreck of HMS Conqueror (pictured)?

• Thank you, Andrew Davidson, but as I said above, the whole section on his art career is missing. All the text in captions should be moved into the prose portion of an art section; then the images could run as the gallery. The ALT4 is not even cited. Yoninah (talk) 18:18, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

• There is a basic contradiction in the article. While it says that Mends was born in 1811 but not baptized until 1815, it also says that his elder brother William was born in 1812, a year after him. (Why does William have two sets of birth/death dates, one year only, and one full date?) I'm also troubled by three main sections in a row that are each only a short sentence; if there's that little to put into a section, then the article needs to be reorganized. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:45, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

• Good points, I have changed the script as you suggest. --Broichmore (talk) 15:51, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

• Broichmore, thanks for the changes you made; however, more is needed. You have two facts that seem contradictory, but haven't done a good job of reconciling them. First, it would be quite unusual if Mends was not baptised within a reasonably short period of his birth, so 1815 is almost certainly his birth year. However, that conflicts with his obituary, which says he was in his 60th year in 1871 when he died (which means they thought he was actually 59, since he was in his 60th year, upon completion of which he would have turned 60). Since we know his elder brother was born in 1812 and George was his next youngest brother (there may have been an intervening sister or two, since there were five Mends children as of 1817 according to the Bowen Stilton Mends source), it's clear that the obit was incorrect; it's okay to mention the discrepancy, but make sure the article notes that there is one now that the birth is given as circa 1815. With the date change comes another matter you need to take care of, which is the note that said that 13 or 14 year olds frequently went to see. Since Mends would have been 8 years and 9 months, mentioning 13 or 14 makes no sense, which is why I added a "clarification needed" tag.

However, you have not done anything to address the other issues noted by Yoninah above, and the fact that you have three one-sentence sections in a row. Are you planning on dealing with these issues? BlueMoonset (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Hmm. One source says he was in his 60th year, the other merely says he was "about 60", which means they had no idea. He was, if we are to go by the baptism date, 56. BlueMoonset (talk) 23:18, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

• Yoninah, I have done some work on the article, addressing the issues I raised and also combining the Artwork and Collections sections and giving them a bit more material, but nothing on the order of what you were requesting. (I don't think it would be appropriate to include details about every image in the gallery.) Please check to see whether the article passes muster now. (I did add a source for ALT4 in the gallery.) BlueMoonset (talk) 02:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

• Thank you, BlueMoonset, that is exactly what this article needs. I'm going ahead and adding you to the DYK credits.
• Now for the hook. I have struck ALT2 and ALT3 as being too mundane. ALT4 is incorrect; he witnessed the salvaging, not the wrecking of the ship. ALT1 will have the most hook interest, I believe, and is sourced and verified. I'm also adding the freely-licensed image to this nomination, and tweaking the hook as follows:

The Burning of the United States steam frigate Missouri at Gibralter, 1843

• ALT1a: ... that George Pechell Mends witnessed the burning of the USS Missouri steam frigate at Gibraltar on 26 August 1843, and his sketch was the basis for a painting by Edward Duncan (lithograph shown)?
• ALT1a good to go. Rest of review per CAPTAIN MEDUSA. Yoninah (talk) 16:30, 3 June 2020 (UTC)