Talk:Furkan Doğan

PROD

I contested it because it looks like secondary sources covering this individual are in development and rapidly accruing. What's here is well sourced, it seems. So it's a debatable point if he satisfies WP:BIO or not, enough to require a full AfD discussion in place of a speedy. I'd wait a few weeks to allow the news cycle to grant him more coverage before bringing an AfD, though, so the debate there doesn't have to rely on "wait and see" arguments that would be inevitably brought against those supporting deletion. I believe that was the procedure after the VTech killings. Dragoneer (talk) 22:02, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

"news cycle to grant him more coverage", WP:NOTNEWS and WP:BIO1E, if he is not notable now he won't be notable after a few weeks. --Kslotte (talk) 22:06, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

You should only remove the template after the article has been improved. I'm putting it back. --Kslotte (talk) 23:15, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

You misunderstood me. I think in an AfD discussion the case could be made for notability as it stands (I'm not saying he is/isn't notable, just that I can see how some editors could say he is). However, given the developing nature of the event he's tied to, it's prudent to allow more secondary sources to arise first before launching an AfD. Then all the sources will be in and can be weighed. As I said, this was the procedure followed after the VTech shootings when articles on the victims were created, so it's only right we follow that model here. Dragoneer (talk) 04:05, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

I understand your concern. I will wait (or if ever) for launching an AfD. --Kslotte (talk) 12:39, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Kslotte, the template clearly says it can be removed "if you...object to deletion for any reason" and that "if this template is removed, it should not be replaced". It does not say the article has to be improved. I agree with Dragoneer's reasons for contesting the deletion, and intend to remove the template. Sanguinalis (talk) 03:06, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, you are right my mistake about putting the template back. But, this article still have notability issues. So, let's keep the notability template visible to get attention to improve it (if possible notability is reached). --Kslotte (talk) 03:18, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to comment that this seems like a clearcut case of WP:NOTNEWS and WP:BIO1E, along with a fair bit of WP:Bombardment. 207.216.57.226 (talk) 21:33, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that's much more reasonable. I'm fine with the notability template for the time being. I don't believe we should have an article for everyone killed on the Mavi Marmara. The case for this particular person's notability is that he was the only American citizen killed, and therefore his death has repercussions for US-Israel relations. There have already been multiple news articles specifically about him. Sanguinalis (talk) 01:00, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Some blogs

please talk about deleting references, in the aftermath, who talk about the aftermath of the subject, before deleting them. they tend to go to the question of 1 event. Pohick2 (talk) 23:16, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

please do not delete blogs as "unreliable"; move them to external links if you must. Pohick2 (talk) 10:59, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Blogs do not belong on wikipedia. If you want to create a website devoted to Dogan, create your own website. Chesdovi (talk) 11:07, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

WP:ELMAYBE: "4. Sites which fail to meet criteria for reliable sources yet still contain information about the subject of the article from knowledgeable sources." Pohick2 (talk) 12:06, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Point 11 applies here. Chesdovi (talk) 12:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

good point, these blogs like Kos are recognizable people, with a pov that you object to. blogs do belong on wikipedia, just like author's website, and WP:selfpub: "1. the material is not unduly self-serving; 2. it does not involve claims about third parties; 3. it does not involve claims about events not directly related to the subject; 4. there is no reasonable doubt as to its authenticity; 5. the article is not based primarily on such sources." they are perfectly acceptable in external links. Pohick2 (talk) 02:52, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

No. (BTW, who is Kemer Yesilbahce?) Chesdovi (talk) 13:16, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

apparantly an American living in Antalya, Turkey, who has the imprimatur of Daily Kos.[1] Pohick2 (talk) 18:46, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

"He had planned to visit New York this summer."

Did he plan to brush his teeth too? Remove this non-relevant line! Chesdovi (talk) 12:37, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

it's in a reliable source, the New York Times, his ability to travel freely to the US is interesting, non? Pohick2 (talk) 16:52, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

And if he planned to visit Timbuktu? Well, if you must. Chesdovi (talk) 17:14, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

it also tends to refute the notion that it was only people connected with terrorist hamas, who were killed, (but also teenagers) Pohick2 (talk) 18:37, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

The information is relevant because it shows his continuing connection to America. Sanguinalis (talk) 02:19, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Is wikipedia a documentation of US-Israel relations? Is there a page on Emily Honochowicz? What about the rift with Turkey (another ally of Israel?) Chesdovi (talk) 10:29, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

well see Israel – United States relations; Israel–Turkey relations. do you really want me to create Emily Honochowicz? some good references: [2]; [3]; [4]; [5], maybe we should just merge them all into American Citizens killed or injured by Israeli Defense Forces. (a good list article) Pohick2 (talk) 18:16, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Hillary Clinton quote

The Hillary Clinton quote is very important and relevant and should not have been removed. Chesdovi removed it, with the comment "rm quote taken from NR blog". Although self-published blogs are not allowed as reliable sources, Wikipedia:RS does not prohibit all use of blogs as sources. The policy actually says:

Some newspapers host interactive columns that they call blogs, and these may be acceptable as sources so long as the writers are professional journalists or are professionals in the field on which they write and the blog is subject to the newspaper's full editorial control.

This source, which is an online column by ABC News White House correspondent Jake Tapper, clearly is in the same class. There are other available sources for the quote, and I plan to add them, but the original source should have been enough all along. Chesdovi, please look at the sources more carefully next time before deleting referenced material. Sanguinalis (talk) 02:16, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

I did try to find another source for this quote as well as mention made by obama, but all I could find was the ABC blog and wikipedia on this article. Chesdovi (talk) 10:33, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Turkish citizenship?

Does hold Turkish citizenship? I think he does not hold, and I previusly added some references for this to Gaza Flotilla raid page. Any other ideas?Kavas (talk) 01:15, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Doğan was born in the US and was a US citizen. Some sources identify him as an American and some sources say he had both Turkish and American citizenship. This is the only source I could find that directly addresses the distinction: "Dogan has usually been described in the media as either a Turk or a dual Turkish-American citizen, but in fact carried only an American passport with a Turkish residency stamp. Furkan’s father, Professor Ahmet Dogan, believes that the press is portraying his son as either a dual national or a Turkish citizen in an effort to “cover up” the reality of his son’s death." Yes, there are editors at the Gaza flotilla raid article changing "American" to "Turkish-American", just today, actually. Normally the above source would provide clarity on this specific point, although in this topic area I expect some will challenge it. RomaC ^TALK 12:57, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

A discussion on this is taking place at the Gaza flotilla raid article's Talk page. RomaC ^TALK 04:31, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Furkan, died as a shaheed?

http://www.sailanmuslim.com/news/a-letter-from-furkan/

I do not read turkish; but it would be worthy to find the primary source? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.57.150.128 (talk) 15:26, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

According to Turkish laws he is NOT a şehit. According to Şeriat, he MIGHT be a şehit but it's a very controversial topic. Noone can say for sure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.239.206.236 (talk) 19:00, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

He hadn't been in the USA since Bill Clinton was in his 1st term!

He was no American. Just a useful idiot of Islamic radicals... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.108.7.182 (talk) 05:59, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Thats true! If he supports to the jewish state,

we accept "he was a american" because Americans are slaves of the Jews. arent they?

Zionisthead! change your mind! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.196.90.30 (talk) 06:05, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Doghan hadn't been in the United States since he was 2 years old. What evidence is there that he "planned on" travel to the USA? Did he buy plane tickets? Make arrangements to stay somewhere? Where was he going to visit specifically? The only reason the NY Times put this into the story is to attempt to demonize Israel. The NY Times made absolutely no mention of the Turkish man's desire to die as a "martyr" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.235.67.230 (talk) 03:27, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Political symbol

Can you please stop removing referenced sentences from the text, calling it POV? WSJ writes this: "Born in New York, Furkan Dogan, 19, Won Lottery to Go on Mission; Becoming a Political Symbol". Wikipedia is here to present what reliable sources say. Kavas (talk) 12:21, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

File:Furkan american.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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Turkish permanent citizen Dogan did not have a U.S. passport

The only reason the New York Times and Press TV label Dogan "American" is to spin the story and make it appear as if a young adult left from the USA to join the Hamas flotilla. This enables them to make the claim "Israel killed an American". It is true he hadn't been in the United States since the early 1990's and had not made plans to visit that were verified (plane ticket, passport renewal, etc) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.254.34.8 (talk) 08:56, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

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