Talk:Ethnic Chinese in Russia

POV

This article is so great POV that it is hard to explain. Evidence for my statement are numbers of Taiwan state agency (http://www.ocac.gov.tw/english/public/public.asp?selno=1163&no=1163&level=B) where is writen that in Russia live 998 000 china nationals. I have nothing other to say. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rjecina (talk • contribs) 09:45, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

And how exactly did the OCAC come up with that figure? They give no detailed analysis or source whatsoever to support their figure; in contrast, the idea that there are a million plus Chinese in Russia has been repeatedly demolished in published scholarly works by detailed analysis of entrance statistics, deportations, surveys of dormitories occupied by Chinese workers, questioning of the local ethnic associations (who themselves have an incentive to inflate their population estimates to make themselves look more important), etc., as is cited in the article. The Russian census has been known for undercounting ethnic minority populations, but the assertion that they missed 19 out of every 20 Chinese people in Russia is extremely difficult to believe and needs very good evidence, and I do not see any. The OCAC aside, these figures of one million plus are thrown around mainly by two sources: Russian journalists who want to bang the drum of fear, and Chinese journalists who want to bang the drum of national pride. cab 01:57, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

You speak that this number (998 000) taken from Taiwan state site is not real because Chinese drum of national pride, but in your logic number of 34 000 is not real because of Russia government drum to lower Russians national yellow fears. To show that number of 998 000 is not so great I will show you now numbers from newspapers which are creating fears:

• http://www.gateway2russia.com/st/art_144395.php (number is 3 200 000) Preciselly this article was made before the 2002 Census...but what the Census showed was a number of Chinese citizens 100 times less than the article said they would find out.
• http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo20060505a1.html is having very interesting comments about Russia official population numbers
• http://english.mn.ru/english/issue.php?2007-13-9 Only in Moscow there have been in 2006 71,046 temporary Chinese residents which is more of what is writen in this POV article. I can write with sources about that all days.Rjecina 06:57, 8 May 2007 (CET)

You want to explain how it is POV to write an article based on what all the reliable authors agree on? I am not just relying on the Russian census, I am also relying on the analyses in all the books cited at the bottom of the article (which is where I get the population numbers for Moscow). The methodology of the Russian Census is well known; the methodology which the various scholars used to come up with their population estimates is described in their papers. In contrast, you aren't able to show any real, scholarly sources supporting any number above the tens of thousands, just one unsourced figure on the web from the Taiwan government and a bunch of newspaper articles which clearly fit the mold of what Alekseev referred to as "yellow peril" journalism. cab 05:15, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Just the fact that the Taiwanese site talks about 1,300,000 Chinese in Peru is ridiculous...it looks the real number is ten times less. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.24.240.101 (talk) 21:25, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

I have been reading 1 of your sources which is on web (http://www.jpri.org/publications/workingpapers/wp62.html) for so low chinese numbers in Russia and I must say that he is not saying that you are right. First for me it is not clear if he is speaking about 40 000 chinese population in Irkutsk region or all Russia. Second thing is that he is speaking about 1994 not about closer year. If you really believe that this number is for all Russia then you want to tell that in 2002 it has been lower chinese population number of 1994 which is very hard to belive. Now I will drop that ball and say something about other things. Your must important fact for number of only 34577 is Russia census of 2002 and this is very bad because in this census there is 1,269,023 persons which did not report their citizenship. Other fact is that even in Russia there is illegal immigration and you do not expect that they will be on census. In time when first Chinatowns are building in Russia you speak about low number of chinese population http://www.hri.org/news/balkans/rferl/2004/04-11-18.rferl.html#11. I giving you advice to find articles about chinese situation in Yekaterinburg and Irkutsk for begining to see how bad is your data. Rjecina 16:27, 10 May 2007 (CET)

Not in all countries that live some chinese population needs to be created chinatown. And not all countries whould allow that. Especially not the countries where their number is so small as in case of Russia. People can judge on how big the population of some ethnicity also by looking how common some surnames are. And in Russia there is a lot more often to see a korean surname than chinese. And koreans number around 145,000. And someone cant judge just because they see on the street more people with mongoloid features that they are chinese because in Russia a great majority of them arent. And even in border regions with china on chinese side there a majority of people arent ethnic chinese. And if people from particular country live in another they whould need to live amongst other peoples and not creating some enclavas. All world ISNT ruled according to america — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.77.245.173 (talk) 11:45, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

There is nothing wrong with more Chinese immigration in Russia. In California and Texas over 35% of the Census population (not countin the illegal aliens) is Mexican and over 47% in New Mexico if 20% of the population of Primorsky Krai were Chinese, something far from reality according to the Russian Census, wouldn´t be such a big problem as most of them can be assimilated by the Russian majority.

We will see what the 2010 Russian Census (after all there is no other source more accurate than the official Census) finds out...but I would be surprised if there are more than 350,000 Chinese in the whole Russian territory (in the U.S. there are almost 3,5 million Chinese and the next official U.S. Census will be next 2010 too) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.35.181.139 (talk) 15:05, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

"related groups" info removed from infobox

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 20:49, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Dubious

The article currently claims that "Chinese people view the 1858 Treaty of Aigun and the 1860 Treaty of Peking, which ceded Outer Manchuria to Russia, as part of a series of unequal treaties which foreign powers forced the Qing Dynasty to sign during the 19th and early 20th centuries." This sentiment of the "Chinese people" seems not covered by the source given, which is page 51 of this paper (on another point, the paper never talks about any "Outer Manchuria").

I guess it is possible that historians see these treaties as unequal, and not too hard to find sources. Even then it does not follow that this has anything to do with irredentist claims. A German historian might well deplore the treaty of Versailles (at the end of WWI) without coming to the conclusion that northern Papua-New Guinea should be German again. Yaan (talk) 15:12, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

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