Talk:Ellegarden

Nutty Japanese CAPITALIZATION

There was a lot of STRANGE CAPITALIZATION in this article. I switched it to capitalization (or lack thereof) normal in English, the language in which this article is (mostly) written.

In this edit, MengHuo reverted this, with the comment learn a little more about japanese music please, the caps there are deliberate and official.

Yes, I know about Japanese music and, more relevantly to this little matter, Japanese script and Japanese marketing. I know that many Japanese people have the odd idea that the choice between lowercase and uppercase is as fixed as is the choice between, say, hiragana and katakana (whereby okurigana is written in hiragana not katakana unless perhaps you are very macho, and gairaigo is written in katakana not hiragana unless you are very young indeed or are a copywriter making some particular point).

Moreover, I know that Japanese companies such as Sanyo consistently capitalize their names ("SANYO") even within English-language contexts -- and that everybody not in their employ ignores this (note the WP article).

And lastly I know that en-Wikipedia very properly has articles for Ellegarden, Asian Kung-fu Generation, etc., and not the ALL-CAPS equivalents thereof. -- Hoary 15:42, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

i'm not even going to fight you on this, but there are more yet articles (including one you linked) with "nutty japanese capitalization" that were agreed upon as okay because that's how it's officially written. reverting to go along with a majority of japanese band pages ... contributed at 01:29, 6 July 2006 by MengHuo

I'm puzzled by your statement that you're not even going to fight. I wasn't and amn't asking for a fight. I'm instead asking for a persuasive argument, or, or course, a reasoned refutation of my argument. Instead, you re-revert, ignore my argument and (to my mind) don't argue at all persuasively. If by "officially written" you mean "written by the source" or similar, then Sanyo is officially written "SANYO", even within English. Are Ellegarden's songs, etc., somehow more officially witten [whatever that might mean!] in all caps than, say, Sanyo is written "SANYO"? As for the "agreement" that this peculiar capitalization is okay within en-WP, what is the nature of this agreement, and is it to be found in some manual of style or similar? -- Hoary 03:34, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I think Hoary has the right idea. The WP rules on capitalization state:

American English and Commonwealth English sometimes differ in their inclination to use capitals. If possible, as with spelling, use rules appropriate to the cultural and linguistic context. In other words, do not enforce American rules on pages about Commonwealth topics or Commonwealth rules on pages about American topics. In regard to pages about other cultures, choose either style, but be consistent within the page itself. (my emphasis)

While I would preserve capitalization if there was evidence that the author's choice of case was essential to the word, for example CamelCase or a nonsense string unidentifiable as a word in any language (sklIODSKfdkldOI), the titles in dispute here all composed of ordinary English words with no evidence the chosen case is anything more than attention-getting typography.

Certainly the band and their producers are free to capitalize as they wish in their own published materials, but since these are ordinary English titles, people who reference them are also free to capitalize as they deem appropriate. Here at en-WP, the style manual directs editors to pick American or Commonwealth capitalization and be consistent, which is what Hoary was doing. --D. Meyer 05:28, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

There has been additional discussion on this topic on MoS (Japan-related) talk page. --Meyer 05:43, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Since which time the article has been debased again, with fanzine-style capitalization of "ELLEGARDEN" etc etc. The band's publicists are welcome to write what they like, and the fans are too. But Ellegarden no more deserves the all-caps treatment in en:WP than does Hoegaarden, Sanyo, or any other name pronounced normally rather than spelled out. If anyone here disagrees, fine: please state your case cogently at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles). -- Hoary 09:37, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Is it not possible to just add "usually typeset as "ELLEGARDEN" by the band" as is in the The Pillows article? I believe this middle ground would please many, because that fact isn't even mentioned. -- Memphis-Ahn 18:42, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Fine with me. -- Hoary 08:53, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Edited, hopefully this will please everyone. Memphis-Ahn 19:32, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Citing Sources

I've just added a bit of info on the support gig to Foo Fighters - "with the band expressing their surprise at being personally requested by Foo Fighters for the support role". I can't cite any sources other than I was at the gig and that is what the band said there. I hope that is good enough. Ka-ru 17:47, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Lawsuit?

Can anyone parse http://www.ellegarden.jp/ja/20070517.html and figure out what's up with this? Google Translator tells me it's something involving the Elle logo but I'm not sure and my Japanese isn't nearly strong enough.

Not visual kei

Why is Ellegarden on the list of visual kei bands? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.147.228.234 (talk) 18:16, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the notice, I've removed them from the list. --Jacob ^Talk 20:24, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Emo?

Can someone show me the source for this? Personally I don't care if they are as I don't take emo as an insult (to an extent I am one and proud of it too) and this is wikipedia, it's about varifiability not truth but I do listen to their music and for some reason I'm am left doubting this. They sound more pop punk to me. BTW, I seem to remember them being labled (on this article) as pop punk but then again my memory might be failing me... 13:20, 12 February 2008 (UTC)ForTheWin

Oh and this article acually seems to refer to them as pop punk now, "Ellegarden has been compared to famous artists of a similar pop-punk style...", is this a mistake or is it supposed to be written in this manner. 21:30, 12 February 2008 (UTC)ForTheWin

Section on re-recordings?

Since signing with Nettwerk, the American releases of Eleven Fire Crackers as well as the digital E.P. Figureheads both had corrections to several songs with primarily English lyrics - Takeshi's English pronunciation was corrected in several instances (including 'Supernova', 'Fire Cracker', 'Alternative Plans') and three older songs on Figureheads ('風の日', retitled 'Windy Day', 'Middle of Nowhere', and 'Raindrops') were re-recorded completely.

Ostensibly these changes were made to appeal to Americans who might be turned off by any flaws in Takeshi's pronunciation. This seems like it'd be worthy of its own section rather than a mention in the Trivia section, other's thoughts - dokool 11:35 February 17th (JST)

There really shouldn't be a trivia section so nothing should be in there. I suppose as long as you have a good source though do as you will.13Tawaazun14 (talk) 01:13, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Rewrite anyone?

This aticle is, overall, poorly written. For instance, there aren't any real sources to speak of (that I can see) and the trivia isn't needed. If it is relevent, work it into the body and please provide sources. Thankyou.13Tawaazun14 (talk) 00:25, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I did my best to improve it, but there are still areas to be sourced. I decided to re-write the article itself and make it more standardized. I also removed the Trivia section, as per Wikipedia's guidelines, and incorporated the information into new sections (History & Background). Toschi L (talk) 15:28, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I would have done it myself, but I've been really busy with articles that are higher up on my list of things to do, and real life (currently I'm dealing with a large amount of power outages). (13Tawaazun14 not signed in)72.81.227.98 (talk) 01:11, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Quality of the English lyrics

"The English lyrics of the band's songs, which are mostly written by Takeshi, are usually grammatically sound and well pronounced." this is NOT true: http://www.lyricstime.com/ellegarden-pizza-man-lyrics.html just for one example. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.147.44.30 (talk) 20:58, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the laugh of the day! Those "lyrics" look as if they were produced as a parody of machine translation, or perhaps were by Racter. However, grammatically they are near-perfect, any grammatical errors (and yes there are some) there may result from typos or faulty transcription, and we learn nothing about pronunciation. Now please excuse me while I kiss this guy. -- Hoary (talk) 02:21, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

They improved over time. Listen to "Salamander" and "Space Sonic". However, their earlier stuff . . . yeah, their English lyrics were a mess. User:rebelcheese 13:18, 10 June 1009

Website closed

Following the beginning of the hiatus, Ellegarden's official website has been closed and replaced with a message to the fans and links to the individual member's blogs. This pretty much means that their website is dead as a reference. What should be done? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.191.127.210 (talk) 07:09, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

External links modified

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