Talk:Deborah Kerr

Active discussions
Deborah Kerr has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
November 16, 2007Good article nomineeListed

Oscar Nomination queryEdit

I thought Deborah Kerr was nominated for Best Actress for her role as Terry McKay in "An Affair To Remember", if I'm not mistaken. Lastcharlie 18:16, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

No. Check her IMDb page showing her awards. She was Oscar nominated (without a win) for Edward, My Son (1949), From Here to Eternity (1953), The King and I (1956), Heaven Knows, Mr. Allison (1957), Separate Tables (1958) & The Sundowners (1960). All as Best Actress in a Leading Role. -- SteveCrook 20:04, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

HonoursEdit

There seems to be have been considerable speculation on why Deborah Kerr has been considered or not for certain British honours. However the decision to award or not has nothing to do with whether the person is 'retired' or not. Politicians, on retiring from public service, are regularly honoured. So it is inappropriate for individuals to insert their personal theories as to why this or that award has been made. I have removed this and left the facts only- that she holds a CBE.--134.36.64.135 22:41, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if you were the one who removed my participation in the Deborah Kerr Oscar and CBE campaigns, but if one can do this willfully without facts it causes the entire Wikipedia process to be subject to bogus entries or deletions.

In particular longtime contributor Bill Keane wrote a piece about my involvement with the aforementioned campaigns and backed it up with assertions and newspaper articles attesting to my involvement.

Therefore I am reproducing the essence of what happened regarding Deborah's receipt of her long overdue Oscar and royal honour and if it is removed again, well, I guess there's nothing I can do. It is childish to play tit for tat with those who are ignorant.

In particular, I have been printed in the Daily Telegraph, The Independent and the Evening Standard and the Scottish Sun taking the Ceremonial Secretariat and the government in general to task for denying Deborah the Dame status she well deserved. I am a Hollywood screenwriter, who successfully contributed to her Oscar campaign (after having done so for Myrna Loy a few years earlier) and thereafter immediately contacted the British authorities about giving Deborah a royal honour. I was incensed that not only was she not a Dame, but had never been given so much as an MBE (the lowest such award) in spite of her brilliant film career.

At first I got nowhere and indeed the Ceremonial Secretariat website says quite clearly that retired people no longer qualify -- look it up if you don't believe me. However, after a chance visit to Scotland in 1997 and after a few letters about the dearth of mention about her in her hometown of Helensburgh, I forged a relationship with David Bruce, former head of the Scottish Film Council (now Scottish Screen). In short, he had British political connections as a friend of the then Minister for Film Tom Clarke. Armed with that, plus letters I was able to arrange from top screenwriters such as Daniel Taradash (From Here to Eternity), John Gay (Separate Tables), Robert Anderson (Tea and Sympathy) and Larry Gelbart (M*A*S*H TV series and Tootsie, among others) we prevailed upon the powers that be to not overlook this elegant woman, who always reflected so well on Britain. And in only two months time, quite shocking actually, a royal honour was announced. However, it was only a CBE, and not the DBE we had requested.

I wrote to Tom Clarke and arranged a meeting with him at Parliament when I was in London and he said that, while it would be difficult to arrange, he would look into it. A little bit later, Tony Blair sacked him and I wrote to Clarke's successor, Janet Anderson, who also said she would see what she could do. However, it appeared unlikely that anything might be arranged for at least five years as Deborah had just been given a high honour (though not what she deserved). And usually the higher honour is awarded when additional achievements are displayed, as in the case of Elton John CBE, who was elevated to knighthood after his charity work with AIDS -- not to mention Princess Diana.

The problem was that Deborah was now ill and retired. She should have been honoured when she was at the height of her fame, and then we might have gotten her "promoted" from that. But we were starting from scratch, the government having overlooked her, and, as stated above, unlike the Kennedy Center Honours, the Oscars themselves and the AFI Tributes, the royal honours do not normally get bestowed on those no longer in service. That's why it was sort of a miracle she finally got the CBE at 76. And we had the Film Minister on our side, no doubt indicating that, hang the rules it is an outrage -- we must give her something.

And so she did get the CBE, and after I informed Robert Anderson, he called Deborah, then called me to request that I call her in Switzerland. I was reluctant to do so, as our communications had only been through several letters over the years and a brief personal meeting, but he insisted. And so I did, and the voice on the other end, so distinctive was none other than Deborah Kerr. She thanked me continuously, having been told by Anderson what I'd done, as she'd done by mail from Spain after she was announced for an Oscar. The latter was achieved by a letter writing campaign to many of her film colleagues to contact the Academy, and then personal conversations with Academy Governor Roddy McDowell, who eloquently lobbied for her to be honored by the Academy.

So, I don't know why people just assume that what people say is false and then have the arrogance to delete the record of what is absolutely true.

Finally, I am stunned by her loss, though it was somewhat expected, and only learned of it days later via email from friends as I checked my AOL messages while on a recent trip to the Sao Paulo Film Festival in Brazil. I'm writing this a bit fatigued having returned to Los Angeles from Rio de Janeiro this morning.

If you people are interested in the facts, then you ought to leave things as they are, especially when they deal with industry professionals such as myself, who anyone can research on IMDB or other Internet sources.

In any event, rest in peace, dear Deborah.

Michael RussnowAndymickey 00:10, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Film NudityEdit

I removed a section discussing her film nudity as it provided false and inaccurate information. According to the obit on cnn.com, "She refused to play a nude scene in The Gypsy Moths, released in 1968. It was when they started that 'Now everybody has got to take their clothes off,' she said. My argument was that it was completely gratuitous. Had it been necessary for the dramatic content, I would have done it. In fact she undressed for The Arrangement, even though the scene was later cut. There the nude scene was necessary, husband and wife in bed together, Kerr said. That was real." See [1]

Note: The text of the article at present says that Kerr's nude scene was for "The Apartment" when it should be "The Arrangement" as stated here above. Someone should correct that in the article. I'm not familiar with the ways of Wikipedia enough to risk it myself. Just wanted to point out the mistake.

Deborah Kerr did shoot a nude scene in the The Gypsy Moths - just watch the film and you'll see it for yourself or look her up on Google for the screenshot photos. The evidence is there. Tovojolo 11:25, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

There are sources for each side, so I've presented both. Clarityfiend (talk) 05:43, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

However, as far as I watch the actual scene, can't distinguish between Kerr and body double argued in article. See [2] [3]

Birth PlaceEdit

Deborah was born in Glasgow, not Helensburgh. She was brought up in Helensburgh, but was NOT born there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.133.43.11 (talkcontribs)

This is true if one is quite technical and it is what maddened me when I visited Helensburgh and later befriended local resident David Bruce.

It seems that after the Scottish Film Centenary, a call was put out to honor Scottish film folk and Deborah was high on the list. A plaque was commissioned to honor her and another Helensburgh native Jack Buchanan. But some ridiculous town naysayers denied Deborah's link to the town by saying she was actually born in a hospital in Glasgow. This was true, but after her birth she was brought home to the family home in Helensburgh, where she spent her early years.

It is to her parents' credit that they desired the best medical care for her entry into this world and went to a major medical facility. This was the early 1920's. But because she was not midwifed in a small town does not break her ties to that community. An article about my visit and dismay was written in the Helensburgh weekly newspaper under the title of "Deborah Kerr, the Burgh's Forgotten Star." Indeed, as I mentioned in the piece, the town gets more from the association with her than a world class star such as Deborah Kerr would be afforded by connection to the citizenry of such a small hamlet.

But the idiots actually demanded that a new plaque with only Jack Buchanan's name be crafted and the original plaque is in the home of David Bruce, who joined forces with me to get her a royal honour.

It was nonsense all around, considering the notices on walls, such as "George Washington Slept Here." I even saw such a plaque about Benjamin Franklin having visited a building in Zurich. People will normally lay claim to even the slightest involvement with an individual to upgrade a town or city's status. So, to thus insist that Deborah Kerr was not really from Helensburgh is small minded, though interestingly when she got the Oscar, David Bruce wrote that the town was all agog. Finally!

Michael Russnow Andymickey 00:25, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

According to her obituary in the The Herald: "The daughter of a civil engineer, she was born Deborah Jane Kerr-Trimmer in 1921 in a nursing home in Glasgow. She spent her earliest years in Helensburgh, routinely cited as her place of birth." I have added this information to the article and provided the link.204.126.251.49 23:23, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

GA ReviewEdit

GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose):   b (MoS):  
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references):   b (citations to reliable sources):   c (OR):  
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects):   b (focused):  
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:  
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars etc.:  
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):   b (appropriate use with suitable captions):  
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:  

This article contains a "recent death" tag, which some might consider as a sign that stability in the article has not been achieved. While I do not personally agree with this, I the article has enough flaws that, when combined with a potential stability issue, merit a fail rather than a hold. Here are some of the most pressing issues with the article:

  1. The article needs to conform to WP:LEAD. Specifically, it must touch upon every major point made in the article and not contain any facts that are not present in the body of the article. The lead, as it currently stands, fails on both counts.   Done Tovojolo 09:41, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
  2. The "Early life" section is scattered and there's probably enough information out there to merit some expansion. Why did she change careers? Did she go to school (ie. college/university) and if so, where? Did she have any training as an actress before she got into films? You don't have to answer all of these questions, especially if the answers are not available, but these are the types of questions that can get you thinking about ways to expand the article.
  3. In "Films," even if there were a good reason to directly quote, rather than summarize or place the quote among the footnotes, it shouldn't stand on its own in the middle of the article unless it's a block quote.   Done Tovojolo 09:41, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
  4. All one-two sentence paragraphs must either be expanded or merged with surrounding paragraphs, as they cannot stand alone.   Done Tovojolo 09:41, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
  5. Some statements require citations:
    Paragraphs 2 through 7 of "Films," especially since many of those contain statements that are potentially POV and OR.
    All of "Theatre," except for the quote that is already cited.
    All of "Television"
    Paragraphs 1 and 3 of "Personal life"
    Sentences 2 and 4 of "Honours" and pretty much everything else below that.
  6. "Early life" and "Personal life" should probably be merged, since neither contain enough information to stand on their own.   Done expanded both so that they stay separate. Tovojolo 00:09, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
  7. One sentence cannot support a Level 3 header, never mind a Level 2 header as with "Death."   DoneTovojolo 18:57, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
  8. Reference #2 needs to use a citation template or a similar format.  DoneTovojolo 18:57, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

These are just the most pressing concerns — the article as a whole needs a lot of work. As per above, I will be failing the article, rather than putting it on hold. Once these concerns are addressed, it may be renominated. If you feel that this decision is in error, you may take it to WP:GAR. Thank you for your work thus far. Cheers, CP 04:21, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

HonoursEdit

Removed from the article. Please add it back when you have verifiable references. Please see WP:OR and WP:NPOV on why we cannot have it in the article.

The greatest honour we can do for Deborah Kerr on Wikipedia is to get her article first to GA Status and then to FA Status – we cannot do that with unreferenced data. Thanks, Tovojolo 22:59, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

The campaign for a royal honour was begun almost immediately after Deborah Kerr received her Oscar, and was conducted by screenwriter Michael Russnow and Tea and Sympathy playwright and screenwriter Robert Anderson. Initially, they wrote to the Queen and were politely informed by Her Majesty's Private Secretary that the only person the Queen listens to is the Prime Minister. So, they wrote to the PM, and were essentially given bureaucratic thanks, as if to say, "We'll consider her."

Then, after a visit to Scotland, Russnow went up to Helensburgh, Kerr's long documented hometown and seeing the dearth of tributes to her in the town wrote to the Scottish Film Council, which elicited a letter from its retired chairman, David Bruce. One thing led to another and combined with Russnow's film connections generating letters from Daniel Taradash (From Here to Eternity), John Gay (Separate Tables), Larry Gelbart (M*A*S*H TV series and Tootsie), Ernest Lehman (The King and I) and the aforementioned Robert Anderson and the political muscle of Bruce's friend Minister for Film Tom Clarke, notice was taken. It was pointed out that Deborah Kerr after so many years as an illustrious film and stage figure had never been given so much as an MBE let alone the title Dame, which she sorely deserved.

However, the Ceremonial Secretariat, which runs the Honours Program in Britain and which indicates on its website that honours are not normally bestowed for those no longer in service, created a tremendous roadblock. Only by Clarke's intervention and the sense that, whatever the rules, it was absurd to have such a film legend ignored by her government and Queen was restitution made -- though only at the level of CBE (Commander of the British Empire). Russnow wrote to Clarke, thanking him, but wondered if Deborah Kerr did not deserve an honour given to the likes of Diana Rigg, Judi Dench, Helen Mirren and Julie Andrews. Clarke met with Russnow at Parliament and expressed interest, but admitted it would be difficult to get the deed done so soon. Plus, normally, further achievements are fulfilled for elevation to higher honours, such as in the case of Elton John CBE, who was made a knight in later years due to his work fighting AIDS.

Deborah Kerr was now ill and fragile and in no position to act again. The fact that the government had dropped the ball when she was at her height of fame in the fifties and sixties was not her fault. Yet the system was intransigent, despite letters to the editor in the Daily Telegraph, The Independent and the Evening Standard, the latter of which printed Russnow's letter of outrage towards the Ceremonial Secretariat under the banner: "Shame She's No Dame" and a big picture of Deborah and Burt Lancaster on the beach in "From Here to Eternity." However, it was not to be and she unfortunately remained a CBE.

The genesis of this was due to a campaign by screenwriter Michael Russnow, (IMDB) who wrote to numerous film colleagues of Miss Kerr such as Robert Anderson (screenwriter of Tea and Sympathy), Elia Kazan (Director of The Arrangement and Broadway version of Tea and Sympathy), Delbert Mann (director of Separate Tables), Jack Clayton, (director of The Innocents) and Fred Zinnemann, (Director of From Here to Eternity) all of whom wrote Russnow letters of thanks, indicating they had sent on letters to the Academy urging the bestowal of an Oscar to Miss Kerr.

It had taken three years and continued lobbying with Roddy McDowall, who was personally lobbying for his friend Vincent Price. But when Price died, Russnow reminded McDowell again at an industry function, and as he had now been elected a Governor of the Motion Picture Academy, he eloquently championed Deborah Kerr's case, and after his speech one of the other Governors moved that the nominations for other Honorees be closed. And so Deborah finally was awarded her due.

When she went out onstage she seemed hesitant and frail. There were some stunned looks by the audience as she grabbed presenter Glenn Close's arm and almost dropped the statue, during the longest standing ovation of the evening, one that also included tributes to Paul Newman and won Steven Spielberg his first Oscar. As it turned out, when the applause ended and her voice started shaky and unclear, she then put on her glasses and with a burst of energy shouted, "I've never been so frightened in all my life." She brought the house down with laughter. But until then, she just couldn't see where she was going with all the lights around her, and when she gained her bearings she came to life and gave a short, elegant moving address of thanks.

Failing health and move to EnglandEdit

The article leaves open-ended the following: Did she and her husband both move to England to be near her children, or did Kerr move and leave Viertel behind in Switzerland?204.126.251.49 23:15, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

The article makes it clear that Deborah Kerr alone moved back to England. Her husband stayed on alone in Marbella, Spain. Source is provided in the article.

Tovojolo (talk) 20:45, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

GA reviewEdit

All of the last review's concerns have been adressed plus every other minors i found i fixed them myself. Thanks for you work :) --- Yamanbaiia (talk) 18:22, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually they haven't because, without even having read my old concerns, I can point out that definitely a)The lead still fails to summarize the article per WP:LEAD (where's information on her film and TV work for example) and b)There are still several one-two sentence paragraphs. Cheers, CP 18:33, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Her most famous films were The King and I, An Affair to Remember and From Here to Eternity. I didn't thought her stage and TV work were worth mentioning. Would this: She also had a career in both stage and television. be good enough?
Also, the only short paragraph there is is the "television" section, apparently she didn't have a very prolific career in TV, so, if there's nothing more to say, then obviously the section will be short.
You are more experienced than i am CP so if you say fail, then fail it is. -- Yamanbaiia (talk) 18:54, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Well I don't say fail, as those are minor things. But I suggest that they be fixed before pass, which I guess since it's already passed, it's no big deal. I'll read over the whole article later and see if it's "good enough." Cheers, CP 19:39, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

RE: Stewart Granger/Deborah Kerr AffairEdit

I understand that Mr Granger claimed this happened, in his autobiography, and instead of removing the entire sentence I have changed the word "revealed" to "claimed" in the Personal Life section. As I had pointed out in my reason for editing, it is a claim by ONE man! There is no independent information produced by anybody as yet to back up his claims. Therefore it is only proper to alert the readers of this article that it should only be seen as such. To call it a "revelation" is to call what had alledgedly happened to be true. People can claim anything in their autobiographies. If there is coroberating evidence to support Stewart Granger's claims then by all means provide it in the article. Tabloid-like phrasing that alludes to something that may or may not have happened, does not belong here. WikiphyteMk1 (talk) 07:28, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

One version of her reply was "He should be so lucky." Valetude (talk) 13:28, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

Usual pronunciation of KerrEdit

"the Scottish pronunciation of her surname usually sounds like "care""? (No, it does not! And I am Scottish so I think I should know. It is pronounced as you would the German word 'Herr'.) Possibly the two words sound similar if pronounced by someone with a very strong Received Pronunciation accent, with the rolled "r" sound omitted and the "e" and "a" sounds barely distinguishable, but this sounds nothing like the Scottish pronunciation of Kerr: /kɛr/. Mutt Lunker (talk) 22:44, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Possible reasons for indifference to Miss KerrEdit

The Scottish attitude to Deborah has, I think, always been one of cool indifference. If the Scots take a dislike to you, regardless of who you are, they will do so by barely acknowledging your existance, never mind recognize you as one of their own. So why would they dislike Miss Kerr?

Well, there was certainly the issue of her old Scottish surname (comes from a Scottish borders clan). Perhaps they believed, and not without justification, that if she'd been a true Scotswoman, she would have insisted that it be pronounced properly. Then there was that pretentious image of the 'English Rose' which would have gotten up the noses of some diehard Scots; who would have just taken the view, again not unnaturally, that she was just shedding her honest Scottish persona for this phoney manufactured one so typical of the annoyingly affected 'English Lady', in order to endear herself to the 'auld enemy' and possibly even pass herself off as English. It should not be forgotten either that Kerr moved to England very early in her life and, if I'm not mistaken, was indeed half English; these facts would hardly have endeared her to her compatriots either, and would certainly have gone some way in creating the impression that she was not a real Scotswoman. In short, she wasn't somebody you would have readily associated with Scotland; though there was undoubtedly a distinctly Scottish aspect to her features and demeanour, which one might associate with the fine-features of a well-healed, Middle-class Scots lady, a bit prim and proper and probably a school teacher from somewhere like Edinburgh (the actress Hannah Gordon is another typical example; as are some part-Scots such as Greer Garson and Jeanette MacDonald).

As to whether or not she was worthy of any plaudits or titles from the State in recognition of her contribution to the stage and screen, perhaps that should be left to those who are in a better position to judge such things. On a personal level, and I am Scottish, as much as I thought she was a competent actress and did have a memorable screen presence, I can't honestly say I ever thought there was anything particularly outstanding about her -- save for her capacity to pass herself off as an Englishwoman. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.111.183.96 (talk) 07:47, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

We can speculate all day about this sort of thing. Ultimately, however, it's not relevant to this page, which is for discussion of issues concerning the attached article or ways to make it better. There are any number of fansites and blogs out there, where your thoughts would be very apposite. Thank you. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 09:21, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, but I thought this was a discussion page, and all I was doing was posing a few possible and plausible theories in the speculative debate over why the subject has not received greater recognition for her work in drama. If I'd known it was just a forum for pointless and repetative sycophantic praise, I surely wouldn't have bothered. But anyway, what exactly is the point to this 'talk' page? If you wish to add authenticated important details about her biography then surely these belong on the attached article. Or will just wee snippets or anecdotes relating to her do? (If so, here's one. A friend when he was a waiter at Turnberry Hotel, had to announce to her in the diningroom that there was a phone call for her. Her response rather than just graceful gratitude, was to haughtily chide him for addressing her as Miss Kerr rather than Miss Carr.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.111.183.130 (talk) 05:24, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Where's your citation or reference to show that the Scots are cool and indifferent to her?
A subject like this is fine in the discussion area, but has no place in the main article because it's just opinion, hearsay & speculation
Given the amount of publicity about how to pronounce her name and that the person asking for her probably pronounced it correctly, it's not too surprising that she corrected your friend. But that she did so in a haughty chiding manner is just hearsay -- SteveCrook (talk) 08:13, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines start out: The purpose of a Wikipedia talk page ... is to provide space for editors to discuss changes to its associated article or project page. Article talk pages should not be used by editors as platforms for their personal views on a subject. I recommend you read the whole thing.
I see it this way: A discussion on this talk page has to relate to something that is in the Deborah Kerr article, or something that someone has suggested be included in the article. It is not for a general chinwag about what various editors liked or disliked about her life and works, public or private. It is not for speculation or gossip. And it is certainly not for "pointless and repetative sycophantic praise". If you want to have something in the article about the Scottish attitude to her, it would be fine (subject to the views of other editors) to find some cited material from a reputable source about that matter and include it. It would not be fine to inject one's own personal views, though. So, there's really no point in airing one's personal views here, because they're never going to get into the article; or, if they do, they'll be quickly edited out by someone else. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 09:10, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
I have seen the Talk pages also being used to discuss an idea before it is added to the article. But I don't think that this idea could ever be added to the article because it is all just hearsay & speculation -- SteveCrook (talk) 09:47, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Was Deborah Kerr scottish?Edit

I've just made a few minor edits of the DK page, including correcting her birth name to simply "Deborah Jane Trimmer" - see the Helensburgh article ref. 2 for confirmation. And I've added that she only adopted "Kerr" on becoming a film actress - see Eric Braun's biography, ref. 13, for confirmation.

The story from Braun is that Kerr was the maiden name of the maternal grandmother of her grandfather Arthur Kerr Trimmer (1861-1926). But I've been researching the family history (my mother was a 2nd cousin of DK), and I'm fairly sure the grandmother in question was one Sarah Spendiff (ca. 1791-1877) from Kent. So I don't know where Arthur Kerr Trimmer got the "Kerr" from - maybe a relative, maybe not. If anyone knows, please chip in!

So perhaps her Scottish connection is only that she lived there from birth to age 3, in which case it might be more accurate to refer to her as Scots-born rather than Scottish.

PS She did have Scottish ancestry through her grandmother Mary Jane Dodgin (1864-1961), with whom her family lived after her father's death in 1937. Mary Jane's maternal grandfather was the sea-captain Robert Ellis (1816-94), born in North Leith, and his mother was Christy Mackenzie, born in 1792 on the farm near Tain that is now the Glenmorangie distillery - you can't get much more scottish than that!. But this only contributes 1/16 of Deborah Kerr's ancestry, and it doesn't explain where the name Kerr fits in.

(Dmollison (talk) 13:46, 18 July 2012 (UTC))

personal lifeEdit

the last sentence is outdated. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 19:58, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Deborah Kerr was Scottish-born, not a Scottish ActressEdit

I have edited the article a few times, and mostly the edits have stuck, as I provided specific, factual information which helped to clarify details of her life and significance. Recently, I changed Scottish film, theatre and television actress to Scottish-born, indicating in my reasons that the appellation Scottish actress was not only inaccurate but limiting, as if she were an actress who primarily worked in Scotland. It has been repeatedly removed by someone, who will not reveal his/her name or give a reason, so I have undone the change each time, in the last instance adding the words internationally known, the phrase now reading "Scottish-born internationally known film, theatre and television actress."

This is accurate and descriptive, whereas to announce her at the beginning of the article as a Scottish actress in those fields is patently untrue. Unlike Ingrid Bergman or Greta Garbo, who became international film stars, they were in fact Swedish actresses, also appearing theatrically in their countries, as did Simone Signoret perform in France. Deborah Kerr's career began in England, where her film career blossomed until she was brought to the States by MGM. To my knowledge, she never worked in Scotland, unless perhaps one of her films had scenes shot there or she might have toured in a play when she resumed her stage career. So, to continually reference her as a Scottish actress, presumably and only due to her birth and early childhood there, would be akin to referring to Vivien Leigh as an Indian actress or Olivia de Havilland and Joan Fontaine as Japanese actresses, because that's where these actresses were born. Or perhaps detail Audrey Hepburn as Belgian, though why she's referred to as British in Wikipedia is beyond me. Even if she were a citizen of that country she didn't live there until she was a young woman and was never considered a British actress anymore than Liz Taylor was a British actress, though she was born in London to American parents. Anyway, I do believe that common sense should prevail and, although Wikipedia seems to permit people to continually edit these articles as they wish, there ought to be some oversight by the powers that be over such matters. Andymickey (talk) 07:16, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Assessment commentEdit

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Deborah Kerr/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Needs citing, cleaning ....(Complain)(Let us to it pell-mell) 04:16, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Last edited at 04:16, 2 September 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 13:06, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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I have just modified 4 external links on Deborah Kerr. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

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As of February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{sourcecheck}} (last update: 15 July 2018).

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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:29, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

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