Talk:Dan Cocoziello

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Dan Cocoziello/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jezhotwells (talk) 18:25, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

I shall be reviewing this article against the Good Article criteria, following its nomination for Good Article status.

Disambiguations: none found

Linkrot: none found. Jezhotwells (talk) 18:28, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Checking against GA criteria

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   The prose meets the reasonably well written criteria.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   References check out, but this reference[1] contradicts the information in the inforbox.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   Although the date and place of birth are mentioned in the infobox, they do not appear in the article.

   He attended elementary school at Gil St. Bernards. Where is this?

   ... taking an entrance exam for the Delbarton School ' Where is this?

   College career: Did he study anything other than lacrosse at college?

   Professional career. There is no real substance here.

   However, his National Lacrosse League rights were acquired by the Philadelphia Wings in the 2010 Orlando Titans dispersal draft. What does this mean?

   This fails on broadness. This amounts to a few lines of prose thrown together from sports database and few news articles.

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   None used

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   No, I don't feel that this article meets WP:GACR#3 - Broad in its coverage. There is really little substance here, I get no feeling for this person, just a list of achievements and that is it. Perhaps when he has actually played some top level games there will be enough material for a good article, but there really isn't enough there now. Jezhotwells (talk) 18:51, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Dan Cocoziello

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch article reassessment page • Most recent review

Result: Listed This article was originally failed due to 3a concerns. However, it seems the 3a concerns stem from a lack of information that is not available in any reliable sources. Failing an article for 3a when a source does not seem to exist is not consistent with the GA criteria. Making a good-faith assumption that the article would have otherwise passed per the review and minor fixes, there seems to be no compelling reason not to list. Aaron north (T/C) 05:27, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Much like the debate at Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/B. J. Prager/1, this debate focuses on the comprehensiveness of a biography article for a professional lacrosse player. Lacrosse is a professional sport that gets minimal press. The professional career part of Cococziello's Google News search consists of three articles.

I will repeat the arguments made for Prager here. The average lacrosse player is very difficult to build a substantial article for because there is sparse secondary source coverage after college. I believe that there is adequate comprehensiveness given the subject matter. In my experience in sports bio GAs, a comprehensive professional career summary includes major records, all-star and award summaries, important playoff performances, notable statistical accomplishments, significant injuries affecting performance, notable transactions and extraordinary single-game performances. Unfortunately, I don't think anything is missing from Cocoziello's article. Thus, although the professional section is brief, it is comprehensive. This article is even more problematic because he is a defenseman and there are no scoring stats to speak of. We need to evaluate its comprehensiveness based on knowledge of and expectations of information availability. In this case, Cocoziello passes WP:N easily and we need to determine where the bar is for him in terms of comprehensiveness. Does anyone expect that his missing personal and background information will ever be available in secondary sources? I am seeking a relisting of this article at GAC with the original date priority.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:42, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

• Comment: I failed this on WP:GACR#3a as the article really contains very little information that gives a broad picture of the player. Tony has added a little more detail, but as he has only played 8 professional games there is, as Tony says, little information out there. I welcome debate amongst other editors here as I feel that we have differing views on the interpretatiion of criteria #3. Jezhotwells (talk) 19:53, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
  • The fact that he has only played in 8 games makes this argument stronger than the Prager argument. There is no encyclopedic content missing from the article based on all reasonably identifyable WP:RSs. Even if he had played a lot of games (like Prager), what is relevant is whether significant encyclopedic content is missing. This isn't a local fan site where every goal is news. This is an encyclopedia charged with the responsibility of summarizing notable career accomplishments. All are duly noted in this case so saying it fails comprehensiveness makes no sense.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:26, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
• Overturn and List IF the infobox is corrected per the GA review under 2a. (His weight appears to be incorrectly listed?) I am presuming the other criteria check out as noted in the GA review. The objections seem to be related to notability more than anything, but the subject is probably notable due to his college career. So, given notability, then for coverage we have to look not only at what would be expected in a sports article, but also what is available. Lacrosse is beyond obscure in the United States, it is virtually uncovered, other than some limited coverage of college players of elite college teams in the northeast. Looking at WP:WGN, I note that one "mistake to avoid" under criteria 3 is "Requiring the inclusion of information that is not known or addressed by reliable sources." I'll definitely change my mind on this if it can be shown that his professional career is covered beyond the bare statistics by anyone, or if it can be shown that there is a lack of coverage in his college career. Aaron north (T/C) 19:07, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
  • Weight fixed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:09, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

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