Talk:Dada/Archive 1

Archive 1

Poème Simultané

I'd like to see something about this form of artistic presentation added to the "Poetry, music, and sound" section. If I'm not mistaken, the concept itself has Dada origins, and even if it was not an original idea at the time, it was still a main attraction at Dada events (according to Hans Richter). I'd add information myself, but I don't feel as if I know enough about the subject to do so. 75.69.110.227 02:12, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Nihilism

Can we please get a citation for:

"Therefore, it is a movement based in Nihilism, in the sense that it embraces a systematic devaluation of Transcendental values and a reconstruction based in the will to power as the fundamental essence of humanity."

That is a very powerful statement and I think it's wholy inapropriate to have it on the page without some sort of reference to it. The subject of Dada is a little more complex than simply nihilism, it could be argued that the europe they opposed was nihilistic rather than them. Because of the complexity of this I'm removing the quote for the time being. Assuming it to be original research. If someone can find a citation then it can be re-added.

Wonder Showzen

I deleted the Wonder Showzen link. I love that show, but including every bit of pop culture influenced by Dada would be an excercise in futility. And if you were to relate TV shows to Dada one of the prime examples would be the Monty Python's Flying Circus.

Opening section

This article has gigantic mistakes, and I'll try to fix some in the future. But, the most important one is the origin of the word Dada. I think it should mention Hans Arp ironic letter to Tristan Tzara, claiming to admit Tzara had invented it as well as the much more credible reference written by Huelsenbeck, explaining how he and Hugo Ball found the word in a german-french dictionary, meaning "hobby-horse" in French. If there are no comments. I'll fix it myself.

Dada was not nihilistic or cynical or random - it was a concerted, political, anti-war movement. I have changed the intro as such - sources and verification are evident throughout the article. Please comment here before reverting. 62.25.106.209 12:22, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I really feel that's not correct. Cynical and nihlistic are subjective, but large parts of dada were random by design. Even the very name dada was random, derived from a randomly choosen dictionary entry. Dada was anti-war, but to describe it primarily as an anti-war movement is misleading and unhelpful. Please be specific in your evidence that dada was a concerted anti-war movement. Detruncate 22:01, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

1. The origin of the word Dada are not confirmed. You will find many contradictory sources.

2. randomness, nihilism and cynicism were all employed as artistic devices in production of anti-war propoganda.

3. Dada began in the anti-war movement and developed past the end of WW1 - so it outlasted its purpose - but every single Dada artist and manifesto continued that anti-war line into a critique on "European civilisation" more generally. It is the describing of Dada as primarily artistic that is misleading and unhelpful. Maybe we should synthesise a new begining?

195.92.40.49 09:19, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't think dada should be described as primarily artistic, but primarily cultural on the whole. Dada began in the anti-war movement, but it was not, in it's formation, exclusively anti-war. To the Dadaists, the first world war was the best example of "what was wrong", but the war itself was not the only target. It was anti-war in that it critiqued the entire culture and social organization that could allow something like the first world war to happen. It was anti-war, anti-art, anti-tradition, anti-prentension and so on, a critique of all the toxic cultural and organizational trends. The reason I don't want it to say anti-war at the top of the article is I feel it too narrowly defines the dadaist movement. It might be useful to have a more in-depth sentence on the orgins of the movement in the first paragraph of the article to more fully explain the relationship of dada and the first world war. --Detruncate 18:09, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree that 'cultural' would be a more accurate term than 'artistic', but DADA was most certainly a focussed anti-war and pro-life movement - every single manifesto and artist was united by that position and that - anti-war politics is integral to the anti-art praxis. 195.92.40.49 09:25, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Detruncate - I think you are partially correct. The initial Swiss and subsequent French instantiations of dada were primarily artistic (like user 195.92.40.49, I think cultural is a better term here), though a) it is difficult for any art to be apolitical, b) the reason they were thrown together at all was due to the war and c) the war provided a huge impetus to their activities in terms of being something hugely obvious to be angry about and protest against. However the later offshoot of dada in Germany _was_ explicitly and self-consciously political in a way the earlier 'dadas' were not. Your suggestion of a more in-depth explanation of the origins of the movement re WWI is a good one - I think that would be valuable. --escha 22:05, 4 February 2007 (GMT)

Gender: Male Origin: Greek Meaning: The Greek name Dadio means - a form of Dada which means torch

The following was found while researching the etymology of DADA (delta, alpha, delta, alpha) and thought it pertinent to the discussion:

Dadas / Δάδας & Dada / Δάδα The Prodromos Hellenikes Bibliothekes / Πρόδρομος Ελληνικής Βιβλιοθήκης, "A Forerunner to a Greek Library", published in Paris in 1805, was a literary collection of works by three ancient writers whom the editor considered as introductory to the corpus of the ancient classics. The editor and publisher was Adamantios Koraes, (Αδαμάντιος Κοραής, 1748–1833) a Greek humanist scholar and medical doctor and an active supporter of the French revolution As a man of the Age of Enlightenment, who was in constant correspondence with the greatest liberal minds of his era He was in constant correspondence with Thomas Jefferson, for example), Koraes tirelessly worked for the liberation of Greece from the yoke of Ottoman slavery and for the education of young Greeks everywhere. His influence in the formation of the literrary modern Greek language has been compared to that of Dante for Italian or Martin Luther for the German language. Koraes believed in the power of education in liberating the minds of individual people and collectively their nations and convinced many wealthy expatriate Greeks to finance the publishing of books in the Greek language to be used in Greek schools in occupied Greece and abroad. The Prodromos Hellenikes Bibliothekes was one such case. In Koraes' Prodromos we find the short story of a Cretan woman named Dada, as relayed by Nikolaos Damaskenos / Νικόλαος Δαμασκηνός in his Ιστορίαι/Stories: Ὀτι Σκάμανδρος ό βασιλεύσας πρώτος των Τρώων, Σάμωνι χρησάμενος συνεργώ, τους εν τή Τρωάδι ἐνίκησεν. ἀποθανόντος δε Σάμωνος κατά την μάχην, την γυναίκα αυτού Δάδαν [Dadan] μητέρα των νεανίσκων, εἰς το Πόλιον εξέπεμψε διά κήρυκος, ὠς ἀν έκεί συνοικήσειεν ότω βούληται. Ὀ δε κήρυξ κατά την όδόν βιασάμινος αὐτήν ήσχυνεν. Ἠ δε, το ξίφος έχουσα το του ἀνδρός, αὐτήν διεχρήσατο. Αίσθόμενοι δε οί Κρήτες τον κήρυκα κατέλευσαν, ένθα ό χώρος Ἀναίδειας ὠνομάσθη. Dada's story was retold (using almost to the word Damaskenos' narrative) in French and then translated into English in the "Dictionary of Classical Mythology", by Pierre Grimal (Willey-Blackwell Publishing, 1990): Dada/Δάδα "The wife of the Cretan hero Samon, who helped Scamander take possession of the Troad. After Samon's death in battle Dada entrusted herself to a herald, asking him to accompany her to a nearby city, where she intended to remarry. On the way the herald violated her and, overcome with shame, Dada ran herself through with her dead husband's sword. When the Cretans became learnt of this tragic event they stoned the herald to death at the very place where he had carried out his rape; the place became known thereafter as the Field of Shamelessness." This is an ancient Greek myth connecting a Greek woman from Crete named Dada and events on the island of Crete with Skamandros, the mythical king of the city of Troy, on the Asiatic shore of the Aegean Sea, by the Hellespont. The name Dada/Δάδα and her male equivalent Dadas/Δάδας are names that are found throughout the Greek speaking word, and not only in Macedonia, as professor Aleksandar Donsky implies. They happen to be far more widespread and popular in Ionia, and the rest of Hellenic Asia Minor, in what is now Turkey. Searching through the epigraphic record, we looked for the name Dadas and Dada, and their derivatives and other names derived from the same toot, and what we found is a rather disproportionate distribution: We begin with Asia Minor: 45 mentions of Dadas or Dada 8 mentions of Dadouchos/Δαδούχος2 mentions of Adados/Ἀδαδος1 mention of Theudados/Θευδᾶδος (Θευδᾶδος is Ionian and Dorian for:Theodados/Θεο-δᾶδος. Θευ-= Θεο-=Theo-).1 mention of Νεικάδαδος/Neikadados.Below is an example on an inscription from Galatia, close to the modern Turkish capital Ankara:Regions : Asia Minor : GalatiaStrubbe, Cat. Pessinus 45 Gal., N. — Pessinous: Sivrihisar — AEMÖ 7.1883.182,56Δαδα Ἀλεξάνδρῳ ἀνδ-ρὶ κὲ Δίῳ υἱῷ μνήμης χάριν.Dada to Alexandros her husband and to Dion her son, in memory's favor.Another example from Phrygia, found not far from the first one:Regions : Asia Minor : PhrygiaMAMA 5 Lists Note:188,1[2/5] Phryg. — Dorylaion (Eskişehir), W. of: Inönü — MDAI(A) 25.1900.417,28 w/470ἀγαθῇ τύχῃ.Διὶ Βροντῶντι ἐπη-κόῳ θεῷ Δαδᾶς/Dadas Δαμᾶσὺν τοῖς τέκνοις Ὀ-νησίμῳ καὶ Διομᾶκαὶ Χρυσίῳ ὑπὲρ τῶνἰ]δίων εὐχὴν ἀνέστησανIn benevolent FortuneTo Zeus the Thundering onethe god who listens (epecoos), Dadas son of Damasalong with his children O-nesimos and Diomasand Chrysios, praying on their own behalf they raised this Next we look at inscriptions at the North Shore of the Black Sea: We find38 mentions of Dadas/Δάδας or Dada/Δάδα2 mentions of Dadaios/Δαδαίος4 mentions of Dadagos /Δάδαγος4 mentions of Dadakos /Δάδακος Example of a Greek inscription from the Greek city of Ερμόνασσα/Ηερμονασσα, modern Tmutarakan (Тмутаракань) by the Cimmerian Bosporus,in Russia, a city strategically located by the entry from the Euxine Pontus into the Sea of Azov. Regions : North Shore of the Black Sea CIRB 1054 N. Black Sea — Hermonassa (Taman ) — 123-133 AD — IosPE IV 421 βασιλεύοντος βασι]-λέως [Τιβερίου Ἰουλίου]Κότυος υἱ[οῦ βασιλέως]Σαυρομάτου, [φιλοκαίσα]-ρος καὶ φιλορωμαίου,εὐσεβοῦς, ἡ σύνο-δος ἡ περὶ νακόρονΒάγην Σωσιπάτρου,καὶ ἱρ̣έα ΣτράτωναὈν̣[ησιδ?]ώ̣ρου καὶ ἱερομά-στορα Ἀπολλώνιον Χρυ-σαλίσκου καὶ γραμμα-τέα Ἀγαθοῦν Πολεμοκρά-του καὶ φιλάγαθον Μυρεῖ-νον β καὶ οἱ λοιποὶ θιασεῖτ[αι]·Καλοῦς ΜυρείνουΜέγης ΜηνᾶΔημοκράτης Δάδα/DadaἈρισταγόρας ἈγαθοῦΔάδας [Dadas] Ἀπολλωνί[ου]etcDuring the royal rule of king Tiberios Ioulios Kotys son of king Sautomates, who is philocaesar, philoroman, andpious, the council surroundingthe president of the temple:Bages son of Sosistratosand priest Straton son of Onesidoros and holy official Apollonios son ofChrysaliskos and secre-tary Agathon son of Polemo-krates and the well meaning Myrei-nos and the rest of the (Bacchic) thiasos members:Kalous son of MyreinosMeges son of MenasDemocrates son of DadasAristagoras son of AgathosDadas son of Apolloniosetc Next we look at occurrences of these names in Thrace and Lower Danube: 19 mentions of Dadas/Δάδας or Dada /Δάδα.1 mention of Dadoparenos/Δαδοπαρηνός.1 mention of Dados/Δαδος. The first examples is from ancient Οδησσός/Odessus, by modern Varna (not to be confused with Odessa of Ukraine, further north):IGBulg 286 Thrace and Moesia Inferior Odessus (Varna) — Galataabove relief.1 Ἥρωι Καραβασ]μῳbelow relief.2 Ἀγαθήνωρ Πόσσειος ὁκαὶ Δαδας/Dadas εὐχαριστήριονκατ´ εὐχὴν τοῦ πατρός.Agathenor Poseios alsoknown as Dadas, thanks offeringaccording to the wish of his fatherThe second example is from Byzantium/Βυζάντιον/Constantinople, modern Istanbul:IK Byzantion 234Thrace and Moesia Inferior Thrace — Byzantion (Istanbul) — 2nd c. BC (Fir.) Firatli-Robert (Annexe) 230 — SEG 24.721Χρηστὴ Δ̣α̣δα/Dada, Δα̣[δας]/DadasἈπολλωνίου.Chreste daughter of Dadas, Dadasson of ApolloniosWe now move to the Aegean Islands: Here we have5 mentions of Dadas/Δάδας3 mentions of Dadamas/ΔαδἀμαςBelow is a well published example from the island of Lesbos:Regions : Aegean Islands, incl. Crete (IG XI-[XIII]) : Lesbos, Nesos, and Tenedos (IG XII,2) IG XII,2 222 Lesbos — Mytilenefrom the base of a statue:ὀ δᾶμοςΔάδαν/Dadan Δίη, γύναικα δὲ Λεσβώνακτοςτῶ Ποτάμωνος, ἰρεύσαισαν Ἐτηφίλακάλως καὶ εὐσεβέως καὶ ἀποκατάσται-σαν τὰ ἶρα, ἀρέτας ἔννεκα καὶ εὐ-νοίας τᾶς εἰς αὖτον. the peopleTo Dada daughter of Dies, and also wife of Lesbonaxson of Potamon, who has been priestess of Etephilain a good and pious way and was instrumental in reconstituting the Ira, due to her virtue and hergood will towards them, the people. Incidentally, this same Dada, whose Roman citizen's name was Claudia, was later honored by the Mytilinean demos with a second statue. She was the daughter of Dies/Δίης, sister of Philon and wife of Lesboanax/Λεσβώναξ (yes, indeed, his name means "king of the Lesbians", and no, we should not get over-excited: it merely refers to the inhabitants of the Greek island of Lesbos). The base of the second statue preserves the following commendation: Κλαυδίαν Δα[δα?]/Dadaἠροίναν Γαίω[---]τὠ εὐεργέτα πα[ίδα]. To Klaudia Da[da?]a heroine to Gaio[---]to the benefactor child.Now we search for the same names in northern Greece, in Macedonia: We locate2 mentions of the name Dadas/Δάδας1 mention of the name Dadouchos/Δαδοῦχος. 1 mention of Dados/ΔάδοςExamples:EKM 1. Beroia 181 Macedonia : Bottiaia: Beroia Διογένης Βαρναίου ἥρωςΔάδα/Dada ἡ[ρ]ώ̣ισσα.Diogenes son of Barnaios, a heroDada, a heroine Another example comes in the form of a small inscription stamped on a clay vessel, an amphora, originating in the SE Aegean island of Cos:SEG 48:832,3Macedonia : Bottiaia: Pella, Unpublished Coan amphora stamp naming eponym Δάδας : DadasA third inscription from Macedonia, concerning the sale of a house: Regions : Northern Greece (IG X) : Macedonia Meletemata 22, Epig. App. 91 Meletemata 22, Epig. App. 90 Meletemata 22, Epig. App. 92 Makedonia (Edonis) — Amphipolis — 3rd c. BC — SEG 24.584 ἀγαθῆι τύ[χηι]. ἐφ´ ἱερέως Αἰσχύλου, ἐπισ̣-τάτου δὲ Κλεάνδρου, μηνὸς Δίου. Κίσσο-ς Ἑκαταίου ἐπρίατο παρὰ Σωσικράτους τοῦ Ἀ-νδρονίκου τὴν οἰκίαν καὶ τὸ οἰκόπεδον τὸπροσόν, ἧι γείτονες Ἀντίγονος Μαχάτα,Νίκανδρος Λεωνίδου, χρυσῶν ἑδομήκ̣-οντα τριῶν. βεβαιωταὶ Μαχάτας Ἀνδρονί-κ]ου, Καλλίστρατος Δάδου, Νύμφων Ξεν-οφῶντος καὶ αὐτὸς Σωσικράτης. μάρτυρ-ε]ς Νέων Ἰχναίου, Ἀ̣σ̣τιδ̣ί̣ης Ἀντιδότου. In Good fortune. During the time of priest Aeschylos whenpresident was Cleandros, in the month of Dios, Kissosson of Hekataios took possession from Sosikrates son of An-dronikos of the house and the land plot adjacent to the properties of the neighbors Antigonos son of Machatas,and Nikandros son of Leonides, for seventy three gold (coins). Verifyiers: Machatas son of Andro-nikos, Kallistratos son of Dados/Δάδος, Nymphon son of Xeno-phon and Sosikrates himself. Witnes-ses Neon son of Ichnaios and Astides son of Antidotos. In Egypt of the Ptolemies we find: 2 mentions of the name Dadas/Δάδας1 mention of the name Dadouchos/Δαδοῦχος.1 mention of the name Dadouchios/Δαδοῦχιος. Example of an inscription:Regions : Egypt, Nubia and Cyrenaïca : Egypt and NubiaSyringes 693 Eg. — Thebes [W.]: Syringes Δαδᾶς/Dadas Ζ̣ιπύρουΘρᾶϊξ,Νίκανδρος Ζ̣ένωνοςΣελγεὺς ἥκω,ἐπ´ ἀγα-θῷ,εὐτυχῖτε {εὐτυχεῖτε}.Dadas son of Zipyros a ThracianNikandros son of Zenonwho came from Selgiafor goodness, well being.Joy to you! In Central Greece: 2 mentions of the name Dada/ΔάδαExample from Thessaly, from a marble-inscribed declaration of freeing of slaves, mentioning a freed woman named Dada:IG IX,2 324 Thessaly (IG IX,2): Hestiaiotis: Aiginion (Kalambaka)στρατηγοῦντος Ἀσκλάπωνος μηνὸ[ς]Ἑ]ρμαίου τρίτῃ· αἱ ἀπελευθερωθῖσαι ἀ-π̣ὸ Ἀντικράτους τοῦ Νικάνορος καὶ Ἀ-φθ]οννῶς τῆς Λαχάρου Δ[ά]δα / Dada [κα]ὶ Κ[—]- Ι̣ραὶς ἡ θυ[γάτ]ηρ άδας/ D— — — — — — οἱ ἀπελ]ευθερωθέντες While Strategos was Asclapon on the monthHermaios, the third day; the freed byAntikrates the son of Nikanoc and aph-thono daughter of Lacharos, Dada and K[—]-Irais the daughter of Dada.— — — — — — the freed slaves... In Syria, Arabia and Masopotamia we had to be especially carefull in selecting names, since Babylonian, Persian and numerous other non-Greek names appear which sound similar to but are not related to the Greek Dadas. We only chose the ones which are indisputably Greek: 1 mention of Dadados/Δάδαδος1 mention of the name Das/Δας (genitive: Dados/Δαδός)1 mention of the name Dadaia/ΔαδαίαExample from Arabia: Regions : Greater Syria and the East : ArabiaPPUAES IIIA 5,651^1 Syria, S./Arabia-Hauran—Inkhilσῆ[μα] τόδεγαμετῇ τεκτή-ν]ατο Δαδος / Dadosἥτις ἄγαν πι-ν]υτὴ δο[ύλη]πο[λ]υήρατο-ς ο̣ὖσ ̣, ἵλα̣-ος(?) here is the tomb built for the married womannamed Daswho was always wise, a much de-sired slaveand a joyous one In Attica/Athens there are countless mentions of the word/atribute dadouchos, due to the Eleusinian and Panathenian festivals and their torch relays, but we only chose this word (Dadouchos/Δαδούχος) only when used as a person's name. Therefore, in Athens we have:1 mention of the name Dadates/Δαδάτης1 mention of the name Dada/Δάδα.30 mentions of the name Dadouchos/Δαδοῦχος.2 mentions of the name Dados/Δάδος Example:Regions : Attica (IG I-III) : AtticaIG II² 11032 Att. — Athens: Akr. — s I p ΚορνηλίαΔάδα / Dada Cornelia daughter of Dadas.And also:Regions : Attica (IG I-III) : AtticaIG II² 8944 Att. — Athens: Akr. ΕὐρυδίκηΔάδου / DadouἸχναία. Euridicedaughter of Dadosfrom Ichna Italy: 1 mention of the name Dadouchis/ΔαδουχίςThe inscription contains a very long list of Greek names (about five hundred), from a religious document from a temple in the city of Rome.IGUR I 160 Italy, incl. Magna GraeciaItalia — Roma: Torre Nova, area of — ca. mid. 2nd c. AD — cf. IGUR IV, p. 148, 160 οἱ ὑπογεγραμμένοι Μακ]ρεῖνος ἥρωςΚεθ]ηγίλλα δᾳδοῦχος/dadouchos (a torchbearer, as a function not as a name)ἱερεῖςΓ]α̣λλικανόςΓ̣αλλικανόςΜακρεῖνοςὌρφιτοςΓλύκεροςΠτέρωνΚαικιλίαΔύναμιςΦιλήτηἘπίκτητοςΔαδουχίς/DadouchisΡοῦφαΜουσικήΦοῖβοςthe undersignedMak]reinos heroKeth]egilla a torch bearer (δᾳδοῦχος/dadouchos) the priestsGallikanosGallikanosMakreinosOrphitosGlykerosPteronKaikiliaDynamisPhiliteEpictetosDadouchisRoufaMousikePhoebos Now that we have seen the name Dada and Dadas as well as many of similar names in related form, all derived from the same root, let us look at their meaning. Let us start with Hesychios, the 5th century AD lexicographer, who saved for us thousands of unusual Greek words and words in various Greek dialects: δᾷδα· λαμπάδα Dada: a torch δᾷδας· λαμπηδόνας Dadas: torches (plural)δᾷδες· λαμπάδες Dades: torches (plural)δᾳδουχεῖ· λάμπει, φέγγει. φωτίζει. [φαίνει] verb: Dadouchei: it shines, lights upδᾳδουχίας· λαμπαδηφορίας λυχναψίας. φωτισμοῦ Dadouchias: about torch bearingδᾳδοῦχος· λυχνάπτης. [λαμπαδηφόρος] Dadouchos: torch bearerδᾳδουχοῦνται· φαίνονται verb Dadouchountai: they are being lit, seenδᾳδουχῶν· διαλάμπων. n φωτίζων Dadouchon: sparkling shiny, well litδαΐδες· λαμπάδες. g λύχνοι Daides: torches, lights (plural)δαΐδων· λαμπάδων (Σ 492) Daidon: of torches δᾳδῶχορ· λυχνία Dadochor: a night lightδαίς· πεύκη, λαμπάς Dais: pine, torchδαίων· καίων S Daion: the burning oneδαίω· καίω ἐξάπτω vgAS verb Daio: to burn, to torch. In the monumental work of the German Linguist Julius Pokorny's Indogermanisches Etymologisches Woerterbuch, which was published in 1959, we find the root / lemma: " dāu-, dǝu-, dū̆- which means : "to burn". " Pokorny connected this to:"Old Indian dunṓti `burns (trans), afflicts', dūná- `burnt, afflicted', Pass. dūyatē `burns' (intr.), kaus. dāvayati `burns' (trans), dāvá-ḥ (with ablaut change davāḫḥ) `blaze', etc...as in δεδαυμένος[dedaumenos]". He continues further down: "gr. Δαίω [daio] (*δᾰF-ι̯ω) `set on fire, inflame', Perf. δέδηε [dedëe]`be in flames, be on fire' (: Old Indian dudāva), participle δεδαυμένος [dedaumenos] (δαῦσαι[dausai] ἐκκαῦσαι Hes., ἐκδαβῇ[ekdave] ἐκκαυθῇ Λάκωνες Hes.), δάος n., δαΐς[dais], -ίδος f. `torch' (to ᾳ: von att. δᾱͅς[das], δᾱͅδός[dados] s. Schwyzer Gr. Gr. I 266), δᾱνός [dais] `easily ignitable = to dry' (*δαεινός from *δαFεσ-νός), δᾱλός `burning piece of wood' (*δαFελός = lakon. Δαβελός)[davelos];" and also: "air. dōīm `singe, burn' (about air. dōīm `get, exert' see under deu̯(ǝ)-), Verbalnom. dōud = Old Indian davathu-ḥ `blaze, fire'; atūd `kindle, inflame' from *ad-douth, cymr. cynneu `kindle, inflame'". In the much more recent work "The Oxford Introduction to Proto-Indo-European and the Proto-Indo European world, by J.P.Mallory and D.Q. Adams (Oxford University Press, 2006), a more updated lema is shown in *dehau, meaning "kindle, burn". On page 123 we read:"Getting a fire started may have been indicated by *dehau- "kindle, burn" with cognates in Celtic (e.g. OIr daud "burning"), Grk dai'o "kindle, burn", Skt Duno'ti "kindles, burns", and Tocharian (e.g. TochA twas- "kindle, ignite, light"). We look up some Sanskrit words in a Sanskrit-English dictionary freely available on the internet, and some words come up which are phonetically similar to the Greek dada and also etymologically related to it:"DAH, I. P. (E. also A.) DAHA, burn, consume with fire ; cauterize ; destroy ; torment, agitate ; pj.be burned; be destroyed; be consumed with inward fire ; be tortured : pp. DAFFDHA, i/, v. ; cs. DAHAYA, cause to be burned; burn (tr.); DO.DIDHAKEHA, be about to burn or destroy ; intv. DANDAHITL, dan- dagdhi, DANDANYATE, burn or destroy completely ; " And also:"DAVA, m. (forest) conflagration; m. n. forest : -DAHANA, m. forest fire ; -Agni, m. fire of a burning forest; Tanala, iii. id.""A Sanskrit-English dictionary", by Arthur Anthony MacdonellDava is a word that in Sanskrit is related to both wood and fire, but particularly in a forest fire. The meaning of the Greek word for dada is similarly related to a piece of wood on fire. The word Dava-Agni-Davagni which indicates the fire of a burning forest could be of particular interest to us, since it has two familiar cognates: one in Greek (Sanskrit Dava – Greek Dada) and one for Latin (Sanskrit Agni - Latin Ignis [the Greek word agne/αγνή is also a cognate, although not an obvious one: agne=pure, purified – through fire). The English word "to ignite" is a cognate of the Sanskrit "agni", and the same word exists in Slavic too. The name Ignatius is derived from Ignis, for fire in Latin, and is therefore related to Agni; we will see it again, later on, so let us remember it, but it is interesting to see its Saskrit cognate here couple with Dada's Sanskrit cognate to form the Sanskrit forest-fight: "Davagni".As it becomes very apparent by now that the Greek word dais/δαίς-dados/δαδός and the names Dada/Δάδα Dadas/Δάδας and their derivatives all relate to the act of "starting a fire", "setting wood ablaze", "igniting", and of course "torches" and "torch bearing". They are all derived from the verb daio/δαίω (in original form *δαF-ίω), which means "to light up", "to kindle", "to set on fire", "to burn,". Passive form: Dedaumai/δέδαυμαι, I am being lit up, torched. Δαίς/dais, is also found as δάς/das, in genitive form δαδός/dados, which translates as "the torch". In ancient Greek we also have the words δαδούχος / dadouxos for "the one holding a torch", as in the torch bearers at the festival of Eleusinian Demetra, in Athens, and δαδοφόρος / dadophoros which also means "the torch bearer". The two associates of the Persian Mithra, the prophet of Zaroaster, whose cult spread throughout the Roman empire and competed with Christianity for dominance in Europe in the beginning of the first millennium, always followed Mithra each holding a torch in their hand, and they were called Dadophoroi/Δαδοφόροι. The verb describing their action (bearing a torch) is δαδοφορέω/dadophoreo : to bear a torche, as in festivals (Liddel & Scott, Greek-English Lexicon, page 365, 1951 reprint). Dadaphorios/Δαδαφόριος was also the name of the fifth month in the calendar of Delphi (roughly equivalent to today's January, the Macedonian Peritios/Περίτιος and the Athenian Gamelion/Γαμηλιών). Dadophorios took its name from of the annual torch-light festival Dadaphoria/Δαδαφόρια that was held on this month in Delphi. Δαδουχεω/dadouheo is a verb meaning "to be a torch", being a torch bearer. The image of the two Dadophoroi/torch bearers passing a dais/dados, a torch to one another, shown at the beginning of this article, is from an ancient Greek amphora. It is showing the passing of the torch in such an athletic contest help during a religious festival, a Dadophoreia, a torch relay. In modern Greek, δάδα/dada still means the torch. A quick "image" search in the internet (using a "copy and paste" for those who cannot spell it in Greek) of the word δάδα will bring up countless images of torches; especially the Olympic torches of the torch relay around the world (from the site of ancient Olympia, in the Peloponnese, to the Olympic city of that year). Dada/δάδα is what the statue of Liberty in New York harbor is holding on her right hand (also called a pyrsos/πυρσός, from Pyr/πύρ for fire). Dadi/δαδι in modern Greek is the resin wood chip used to ignite a fireplace fire. Professor Aleksandar Donski/Александар Донски, of Skopje, FYROM, in his futile attempt to establish a non-existing connection between the ancient Greek names Dada/Δάδα - Dadas/Δάδας to words in the jugo-Slavic language spoken in the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, proclaims that "The noun "dada" in the present day Macedonian [sic] language means "older sister"". He obviously forgot to inform us as to how Δάδας/Dadas is related to his own "Дада"". And what about Dados, Dadouchos, Dadates, etc...how are these men related to the Slavomakedonian "older sister-Dada/Дада"? Consistency, it seems, is not a pre-qualification criterion for the good nationalistic propagandist. Having by now been informed of the meaning of Dada in the "present day" language of the modern inhabitants of FYROM (ancient Paeonia and Dardania-not Macedonia), it is time to recall what Dada means in the "present day" languages of most other European nations: DADA: an anti-war, anti-establishment radical art movement of the WWI years (started in Zürich in 1916), which reverberates on and off till now (the Punk subculture owed much to Dada). Unfortunately, the European Dada, despite its obvious phonetic similarities, happens to have about as much connection to the ancient Greek Dada/Δάδα and Dadas/Δάδας as the pseudo-makedonka "older sister"-"Dada/Дада". In conclusion, Dada/Δάδα and Dadas/Δάδας and other similarly derived names of the same linguistic root, have been attested in Greek Mythology and Greek History. The Hellenic epigraphjic record containes numerous inscriptions with these names, as clearly demonstrated above. Equally important is the fact that Dadas, Dada and related names were popular throughout the Greek-speaking word, and certainly not only in Macedonia. While there are only four mentions of the name Dada (and similar, related names) in Macedonia, there are about twenty one mentions of these same names in Thrace (in modern Bulgaria, Turkey and Greece), over fifty-five mentions of these same and related names in Asia Minor (now Turkey) and forty eight in the (predominantly Ionian) Greek colonies of the Euxinus Pontus (the Black Sea), Greek cities in what is now Romania, Moldova, Ukraine and Russia. There were, as we showed above, ancient Greek inscriptions with the names Dada/Δάδα, Dadas/Δάδας, Dados/Δάδος etc found in other places in Greece, from Thessaly and Athens to Crete, Delos and Lesbos, but also in places as diverse and distant from each other as modern Syria, Mesopotamia-Iraq and Saudi Arabia, but also in Egypt and in Italy-Rome. The common thread uniting these names is their "burning", "fire-igniting" and "torch"-related etymology: Dadas/Δάδας, Dados/Δάδος, Dadaios/Δαδαίος, Dada/Δάδα: if they were Romans, instead of Greeks, with etymologically similar Latin names, they would have been named Inflammatus, Candelabrarius, Candela, or Ignatius: they too are "burning", "inflaming", "fire-igniting" and "torch" related names, like Dada/Δάδα and Dadas/Δάδας.

Miltiades Elia Bolaris —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.131.20.78 (talk) 07:14, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Miscellaneous

Why does the bibliography only include two sources? I do not think Huelsenbeck's account should be the only account directly from a "dadaist"; what about Hans Richter's book Dada Art & Anti Art? I have this book and would be quite willing to submit my changes/additions to the Overview section of this page for consideration. ---- DYLAN GRAYSON DYLAN GRAYJSON FDJAKLSCEHBQWUO DYLAN GRAYSON WITHINWITHOUT@GMAIL.COM

I don't think that the "Dada Manifesto 2001" should be included in the text. It is obscure and insignificant. It only gets two results on google, both from the actual manifesto website. I've moved it to talk:

Dale J. Sprague wrote the Dada Manifesto 2001, endorsed by 10 people (as of 2003), at Phoenix Web Site.

--snoyes 16:39, 3 Jan 2004 (UTC)

No problem with that. Actually the reason I included it was 1) to show that Dadaism is still alive among some people and 2) the main reason, to have something to fill the "Modern Developments" section, since I think in order to have a section it is a good idea to write at least two paragraphs. :) if u have something to add under the Modern Developments section, feel free to do so. Optim 17:43, 3 Jan 2004 (UTC)

sethmahoney, re:"Comments belong in the talk page"-- I thought this was a collaborative encyclopedia where people could contribute their knowledge. I was contributing knowledge. Isn't it a bit ridiculous to say that adherents of dada were trying to achieve a personal understanding of the true nature of the world around them?

This is a collaborative encyclopedia, and we welcome your contributions. However, since it is an encyclopedia, there are style guidelines. See Wikipedia: Manual of style if you have questions. If the comment I left when I reverted your edit offended you, try to understand - Wikipedia gets lots of vandalism, and sometimes it can be difficult to tell who is trying to do what.

As far as your question goes, I'm with you. Its a bit ridiculous to say that the adherents of dada (insofar as the word adherents applies to the people who produced dada art) were uniformly trying to do anything, much less trying to achieve a personal understanding of the true nature of the world around them. -Seth Mahoney 02:14, May 3, 2005 (UTC)

OK--I wasn't offended per se. I was just trying to imagine what a dada version of the wikipedia definition of dadaism might actually be. Probably, it would have involved deleting the whole thing.

Heh, or maybe a blank page, or the word "dada" in big, bold letters, or some common household item made malicious looking, or a big web of string and glass? -Seth Mahoney 02:00, May 4, 2005 (UTC)

C'mon now. SURELY you can come up with a better example of modern Dada influence than Wonder Showzen! --128.205.124.89 02:38, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Would anyone consider using the "da da da" song from 1982 as a modern example of dadaism? The title is not the only hint, the structure and words of the song and especially the video seem to me to be dadaism at least as I understand it. Please check the video here: http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=344705699499781309 Maybe watching this can illutrate for some people what dadaism is! Sorry, I do not know how to identify myself here.24.69.35.203 07:41, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Move?

Seldom, in 35 years of reading about Dada, have I seen it called "Dadaism", and to me it feels awkward to write "Dadaism". Most often it's called "Dada". A check of "What links here" shows more links (about 150) to "Dada" than "Dadaism" (under 100).

How's about we move "Dadaism" to "Dada" and make "Dadaism" the redirect page? --sparkit (talk) 01:04, May 24, 2005 (UTC)

More...

West, Shearer (1996). The Bullfinch Guide to Art. U.K.: Bloomsbury Publishing Plc. ISBN 0-8212-2137-X., lists "Dada", not "Dadaism."

A search at bartleby.com for "Dadaism", returns "Dada."

A search at dictionary.cambridge.org for "Dadaism," returns "not found."

A search at www.metmuseum.org for "Dadaism," returns four listings. "Dada" returns 17.

--sparkit (talk) 05:20, May 25, 2005 (UTC)

I've requested the move. move request. --sparkit (talk) 04:52, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)

• Support —Michael Z. 2005-06-17 04:49 Z
• Support move to Dada. Alexander 007 06:29, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. The pages were swapped to retain the history (they were merged). violet/riga (t) 18:31, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thank you! --sparkit (talk) 05:56, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)

removal of the Bonzo Dog Band from the "Related links" section

Hello, I noticed you removed the Bonzo Dog Band from Dada on the grounds that the article is about the art movement that finished in the 20s/30s. However, it has a section called legacy and you haven't removed Tom Stoppard. Can you explain your reasoning in more detail? Thanks. --bodnotbod 05:05, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

So we meet at last? :-)

I removed it from the "Related links" section as IMO the Bonzo Dog Band has only secondary and faint relations with Dada, at least in contrast with that section's other links: 1918 Dada Manifesto, Expressionism, Futurism, Modernism, Surrealism etc.

Arguably, mentioning the band in the legacy section e.g. like this:

The British musical group originally named Bonzo_Dog_Doo-Dah_Band (Doo-Dah being an allusion to Dada) called one song Ready Mades and another The Bride Stripped Bare by Batchelors.

could be considered acceptable, though only from a mere formal point of view: the band was influenced by Dada - but then, where would that list end? I suppose hundreds, if not thousands of artist of any kind have been subject to Dada influence or be sympathetic to it. Wikipedia articles should not be linklists. There are some exceptions to the rule for technical articles, but IMO this doesn't apply here.

So the decision should be about relevancy: is the Bonzo Dog Band relevant enough to the subject to be included? I'm not too happy with the legacy section, IMO it should center on trends and movements inspired by Dada, possibly including artists that made a lasting imprint on art history. I don't think the Bonzo Dog Band falls into that category. Anyway, you should discuss this here, I might be wrong. ...and fear not: I'm not a Bonzo Dog Band hater. --Tickle me 06:23, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

• Hello. First a correction: The Bonzo Dog Dada Band was the original name, which then became Doo-Dah as they became tired of describing what Dada was in interviews, and then finally boiled down to just The Bonzo Dog Band.

I think I would find it easier to agree with you if I was convinced that the article could indeed become overrun with those who claim to have been influenced by dada if a tight rein wasn't kept on things: but are there really that many names that could be put? And even if there are, are The Bonzos not notable by being a musical example (bearing in mind that beyond the mere randomly generated band-name, the dada references in their titles, they also used arty props and masks on-stage - though I confess I'm ill-equipped to say how true to dada these on-stage devices were) or are there many musical examples that could be added? Do you feel any enthusiasm for having a go at the legacy section? Perhaps then I could better state a case for The Bonzos inclusion. Otherwise I don't have much to go on, since I'm very much more into The Bonzos than I'm into Dada.

Anyway, I'd come in all wound up for a fight, but you've been quite charming, so I find myself annoyingly disarmed. Anyone else care to comment? --bodnotbod 11:11, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

I'd come in all wound up for a fight: no offense meant, feel free to include them, if include you must:-) Anyway, as both the Bonzos and Dada are long bygone, we might well wait for comments as you suggested. btw, though certainly none of my business: what about mopping up Bonzo_Dog_Doo-Dah_Band in the meantime? Do you feel any enthusiasm for having a go at the legacy section?: Err, I will eventually if nobody else does... --Tickle me 12:33, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

• It was me that added the cleanup notice ;o) I encouraged people on the Bonzos Yahoo Group to contribute, but apparently it fell on deaf ears. I suppose there is a fair bit I could do to it. I seem to be overwhlemed with stuff I want to work on at the moment. Tickle me I'd be interested to hear your views on what I've done - in terms of presentation - on Rachel Whiteread. I've tried to initiate a discussion about getting external imagery into accessible positions on the page over at Portal_talk:Art#Formatting_visual_arts_articles_with_details_on_individual_works, it's something I would like to hammer out with community support and then my intention is to use whatever format everyone enjoys on a number of artist's articles. If you would look at Whiteread and then add your view at that portal page I'd be grateful (even if it's negative!) --bodnotbod 19:15, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Christian Death: removal

@84.66.163.10: I removed this till it's been discussed:
[[Christian Death]], a [[Gothic rock]]/[[Deathrock]] band whose lyrics were heavily inspired by Dada.

From the articles 136 lines (use copy&paste + a line numbered editor) only one:
now Rozz showed an interest in Surrealism and the Dada movement and this reflected in the music...
mentions Dada. Please see above. --tickle me 21:29, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Hi. I'm the guy who added Christian Death. I would like to point out that the Rozz Williams page has been criticised for not detailing his interest in DaDa. Perhaps the same could be said of the Christian Death page. Alternately, perhaps we should add a link from the nihilism page to the Rozz Williams page? Anyway, allow me to quote some Christian Death lyrics:

The legless man had directed him to a window

windows like blind eyes probed the mud

the minutes that were left

ran across his throat stuffed with cotton

and his mouth could hear distant splashes

Now don't tell me that doesn't sound Dada influenced. User:D-Raven

Hi, arguably it does, but IMO that's not the point: I bolded the issues in the posts above that should apply here too. perhaps we should add a link from the nihilism page to the Rozz Williams page?: I won't start a fight but advice against it for the same reasons.

In the end it boils down to this: Impetuous youth should have some mercy on us old farts... one fine(?) day Dada, Nihilism and whatever will be hapless objects of your weird & whimsical vagaries, while we push up the daisies for you to have a place to merrily dispose of carousal's residue. --tickle me 00:41, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant to write "Perhaps we should add a link from the dada page to the Rozz Williams page?" but I wrote Nihilism. Once again, I apologies. User: D-Raven

I would reply no to either suggestion. Adding a link (with explanation, in the body of the article, not in the "See also" section) to the articles Dada or Nihilism in the Christian Death page would be appropriate. But neither the articles Dada or Nihilism are about popular music, nor are they places to store links to popular music bands. -Seth Mahoney 19:58, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

OK. That doesn't sound Dada influenced. At least I don't think so. It sounds influenced by anything with dark, slightly abstract lyrical value. That could have been influenced by anything from Emily Dickinson to Michael Gira to Trent Reznor, but I really don't see Dadaism in that. Put it up next to anything by Tzara, they look nothing alike. sorry : ( --128.205.124.89 02:47, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

A blogger's -mildly funny- wikispam attempt

The Carton Tragedy link is a wikispam attempt, cf. the Book of Merz link on that article. He vandalized here: Dada#oldid=26106342, user 128.119.132.100.

google "Carton+Tragedy" (arguably) proves Carton Tragedy's fictional nature. He should use uncyclopedia.org to have fun. Ceterum censeo, spam esse delendam - kill him (and her or it too), ex medio tollendus est!

Chronology of Dada Cities

I have a minor quibble about the order in which the Dada cities are listed under the banner "History" on this page. Right now, the cities come in the order of Zurich, Berlin, Cologne, New York, and then Paris. I feel like this is misleading in two important ways.

First, an issue of chronology: the New York and Paris strains arose almost at the same time as Zurich (though you'll never hear me argue against the notion of Zurich as the undeniable birth place), and yet these cities are listed further down than Berlin. Picabia was working in New York as early as 1915, and Duchamp had been there at least since 1913, the year of the Armory Show. Berlin didn't really get fired up until around 1917, when the threat of a longer war emerged with the American entry into it, or even until 1918, when its members found a new source of disgust in post-war corruption, vice, and just general social decay. For these chronological reasons, I feel like Berlin should be moved below NY and Paris, followed by Cologne and The Netherlands, which -- can we all agree? -- are practically after-thoughts when compared to the works from the primary four cities.

The other discrepancy is ideological, but also influences my request for re-ordering the page's layout. The Berlin section makes a good point of showing how that city's manifestation of Dada was markedly more political and harsher in its criticism of social structures than its more anti-art concerns in NY, Paris, or Zurich, so let's push that point home! Moving Berlin down the list past the other cities, like I suggest above, would not only distinguish them on a time line, but would also help reinforce the point that Berlin Dada was notably different in its ideological aims, as well.

I bring up this issue because I'm only a semi-regular editor of Wiki-pages, and I don't even have the html chops to enact the changes I'm proposing. Plus, I want to make sure all you other contributors are on the same boat as me. If you agree with my long-winded reasoning above, could someone please change the layout of this page to help Wiki-visitors better understand the confusion that is Dada?

Thanks for the time, Dan Julius (djulius@luc.edu for any responses)

ahhh nono. yeah new york was early, but paris didn't get "fired up" until Tristan Tzara moved there in late 1919. Chronologically it goes Zurich, New York, Berlin, Cologne, Paris. --128.205.167.6 06:42, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Nude Descending a Staircase

Nude Descending a Staircase is more a cubist piece than a Dada piece. Also, it was painted 3 or 4 years before Dada got rolling. Painting wasn't too traditional for Dada, for the most part. (The Ernst painting would more likely be classifed as Surrealist.) Collage is more representative of Dada. And of Duchamp's works Fountain, In Advance of a Broken Arm or Blind Man would better depict Dada. Or Picabia's 391 magazine. >>sparkit|TALK<< 02:41, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Good call, >>sparkit|, I agree completely. Thanks for improving the article. --Charles 03:43, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Hannah Höch

I added Hannah Hoch to the Early Practitioners section, as one of her most famous Dadaist works 'Cut With The Kitchen Knife' predated the Dadaist Manifesto by three years and certainly put her at the forefront of the movement. Dustyhodges 11:07, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Citations for quotes needed in "What is Dada?" section

Currently the section reads:

According to Tristan Tzara, "God and my toothbrush are Dada, and New Yorkers can be Dada too, if they are not already." A reviewer from the American Art News stated that "The Dada philosophy is the sickest, most paralyzing and most destructive thing that has ever originated from the brain of man." Art historians have described Dada as being "in reaction to what many of the artists saw as nothing more than an insane spectacle of collective homicide." Years later, Dada artists described the movement as "a phenomenon bursting forth in the midst of the post-war economic and moral crisis, a savior, a monster, which would lay waste to everything in its path. [It was] a systematic work of destruction and demoralization...In the end it became nothing but an act of sacrilege." Dada was "a revolt against a world that was capable of unspeakable horrors." Reason and logic had led people into the horrors of war; the only route to salvation was to reject logic and embrace anarchy and the irrational.

I put all those s in there, because those are formatted as if they were direct quotes, but are way too vaguely attributed. I sincerely doubt every "art historian" has described it in that exact same phrasing (and surely there was a first person who said that, even if it was repeated), and WHICH artists said those two lovely, striking lines? Cite, people. Don't just tell us some "artists" or "art historians" have said something, tell us which ones said it! I mean, those are all great quotes, very striking and all, very poetic, I love them - but we NEED to know who the heck actually said what, here. 63.21.94.120 03:10, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I have added references for the first two {{fact}}s. Enjoy, and do improve if you feel the source says something else. (Using various search engines it doesn't have to take very long to find references, and adding them gives you a warm fuzzy feeling, which I'm not sure {{fact}} does

.) -- Woseph 19:26, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't the section be titled "Wat is Dada?" because of this piece? (by Theo van Doesburg) http://static.flickr.com/35/100391044_891b7e7110_m.jpg Xercessthegreat 10:54, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

No, that would be esoteric, dontcha think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.177.187.2 (talk • contribs)

Dada removed

Idi Amin Dada was added to the "see also" list. A self-referential attempt at Dada within the article? In any case I removed him. ---Sluzzelin 08:56, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Tel Aviv and other modern things

I just took this out:

Tel Aviv

In the early 2000's a group called Free Academy is marked to be an essentialistic Dada group, based in Tel Aviv. Led by Roy Arad and Joshua Simon it had published many articles and idea in the Dadaist spirit, such as planning a coup in City Hall (first ever large scale municipal takeover), moving Tel Aviv's beach to the center of town - into Rabin Square and reading poetry in McDonald's branches throughout the city. They have a special army like salute and recently opened road blocks in the city center, dressed up in highly decorated uniforms. Their film department is called Avriri, and is led by Dadaist filmmaker Nimrod Kamer. "Avriri" main principle is that the making of a film must be held like and regarded as a social event.

It's a modern thing, if it's even true. Perhaps there needs to be a modern section (or even article?) on modern Dada. Until then... Totnesmartin 19:41, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

and another:

Radiohead's CD Kid A consists of many lyrics said to have been drawn out of a hat, possibly inspired by the dada movement.

Citeable article on Smithsonian website

http://www.smithsonianmagazine.com/issues/2006/may/dada.php?page=1

I haven't read it yet... >>sparkit|TALK<< 15:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Ways Dadaism has been described

this section has been useful in the postmodernism page, perhaps it can be here too. Spencerk 08:56, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

This seems really out of place and awkward. Ridernyc 20:18, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Nobody seems to have mentioned an essential aim and penetrating spiritual insight of dadaism: the destruction of the barriers between the sacred and secular, the artistic and non-artistic, the personal and political. I would like to see the spiritual nature of the dada movement addressed, for example, its use of paradox, and it's Zen and parable-like attempts to shock its audience into deep insight and transformation of consciousness. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Antinomi (talk • contribs) 21:30, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation

How is dada pronounced? Dah dah, or dae dah? --125.238.114.96 04:12, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Dah Dah — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slrrrrrrrrrr (talk • contribs) 08:33, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Need for disambiguation with Dada giri?

"Dada giri" is a word commonly used in India to indicate the act of bullying (example reference: [1]) although the meaning of the word "dada" is "elder brother" in Bengali language (ISO 639-1:bn). The reason I am putting up this question here is that dada-ism (in this Indian context) and Dadaism (in Dada the art phenomenon context) are close interpretations that warrant at least a clarification. What do you think? -Deepraj | Talk 17:07, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Plagiarized

User:72.68.178.189 asserts that "WARNING: THIS PAGE HAS BEEN PLAGIARIZED FROM http://www.museum-online.ru/en/Epoch/Dadaism."

Having watched this article develop over the last several years, I'm certain that the museum-online.ru article was copied from wikipedia, not the other way around. --sparkit^TALK 16:35, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

hey, sparkit. you might be right. but one's person cursory comment does not settle the issue. i tried to contact the museum-online site but it's in russian. this should be investigated. i've announced a few plagiarized articles on wiki, and they were rightly taken down. if you're right, then we should leave it, but we need to clarify the matter first. btw, if you are an expert on plagiarism, perhaps you should spell check it. sorry to be rude, but the whole point is covering our bases, not our basiz. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.68.178.189 (talk • contribs)

Seeing as half the Internet recycles Wikipedia content, I'd say it's much more likely that that's what's happened here as well. Please refrain from editorialising in articles, it compromises their integrity. Riana ⁂ 17:51, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

• (ec) I took the "plagiarized" comment from the main article, as it's not appropriate there. From reviewing the edit history of the article here, it looks strongly like the article grew here (as they do) and wasn't a copy/paste job from the Russian site. My immediate instinct on this one is that it may be copyvio all right, but it's not ours. - Alison ☺ 17:52, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Other articles on that same site are also extracted from wikipedia, Surrealism for example. What is on that site is the surrealism article from wikipedia from about a year ago. I don't expect my comment to settle the issue. Some investigation into the history of this wikipedia Dada article will show the development of the article -- how it came to the state it was in when copied to the other site, and what's happened to it since. For reference, the copyright violation process is here WP:copyvio. --sparkit^TALK 17:54, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Um... but what is it?

Sorry I've read the article through and I can't honestly say that I am any the wiser as to what Dada is. Surrealism, Nihilism, Post-Modernism, cubism and so forth I've no problem understanding but I'm afraid I couldn't really see anything in the article that plainly told me what Dada is. Sorry if I'm being a bit thick here but can anyone help?AlanD 18:24, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

You would be better off to read/view/see some of the works by the artists mentioned. It's like the old saying Writing about music is like dancing about architecture. -- 146.115.58.152 07:08, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. BUt then again surely an encyclopedia article should be able to define the subject of the article so that a layperson can understand it?AlanD 08:23, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Have another look at the intro -- it was originally a bunch of people protesting war with avant gardé art, and as a cultural movement much has sprung from that. ←Ben^B4 17:31, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

I am in the same boat as the first poster in this section. The article reads more like an aspiring amateur's writing than concise, meaningful content. For example: A movement that proclaimed to be nothing and everything,[4] Dada desperately sought a fresh start, a tabula rasa for culture and humanity. The prodigious savior, Dada, magically spurted in New York, Zurich, Paris, Berlin, Cologne and Hanover from 1915-1917 as a reaction to the atrocities of a war based on the rational decisions and so-called social order of the State (e.g., France, Germany, Austria-Hungary, etc.) Dada arose from the depths of individuals as a testament to the everlasting spirit of change.

"The prodigious savior"? "Magically spurted?" Really?

And "tablua rasa" is used metaphorically, which I don't think explain "fresh start" any further.--76.14.27.137 (talk) 03:56, 16 July 2013 (UTC)EHaus

GA Rereview

As part of the WP:UCGA work, I've put this article up for a GA re-review - the GA was added by an anon IP and the article currently lacks references to support a GA, among other possible problems others may find. --Masem 20:00, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

This article has been delisted from WP:GA per WP:GA/R. The discussion, now in archive, can be found here. Once the article meets the criteria listed at WP:WIAGA, it may be nominated at WP:GAC. Regards, Lara♥Love 17:12, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

The Onion article

Hard To Tell If Wikipedia Entry On Dada Has Been Vandalized Or Not. -- 146.115.58.152 07:03, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

The next week or so should be very interesting. Rstandefer 14:07, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

So, which is it?

A) ongoing vandalization is being deleted through vigilant updating

1. Bearian 15:10, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

B) a deliberate statement on the impermanence of superficial petit-bourgeois culture in the age of modernity

1. ←Leondegrance 22:51, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
2. ←Plasticup ^T/C 02:31, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

C) voting is evil

1. ←Ben^B4 17:19, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

D) eggbeater

1. ←67.98.206.2 19:00, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
2. ←Lizz612 19:41, 29 August 2007 (UTC) and then some.

B. Definately B. Though I do wish some of the text in this article was in the form of a Krazy Kat cartoon. Kevin 22:55, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Pi in your face! Bearian 15:10, 9 October 2007 (UTC) 300px This is Krazy Kat. Bearian 15:13, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Modern usage?

I cut this from the "legacy" section, and I bring it here for discussion:

The satirical Church of the SubGenius pays homage to Dada in its use of the term "Bulldada", which has passed into common usage as a description for concepts and items that are unintentionally ironic.

The Brotherhood of Dada is a fictional gang in DC Comics. They are devoted to all things absurd and bizarre.

The word Dada Core used to describe an underground music movement that originated in south western New York, as a reaction to the "sterile and stagnating" local music scene and overwrought ego of so called Indie rock bands. The genre's definitive act Japanese Lady Boy Massacre is well known for a wide range of musical styles.

Is any of this really relevant? The Church of the SubGenius, I would say, can legitimately be said to be influenced by Dada. Still, it is unreferenced. The comic book reference is really beside the point and trivial. This alleged "music movement" in southwestern New York really stretches the limits of believability, notability, verifiability, and relevance. Even if it were referenced and linked, so what? I would argue that if this section were to be deleted as, essentially, a trivia section, the article would not be hurt one bit. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 17:43, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

"Soiree DADA"

I removed this paragraph from the "legacy" section, and I bring it here for discussion:

In 1996, WNEP Theater in Chicago began performing Soiree DADA, created by Joe Janes and Joel Jeske. The show, which included new Dada sound poetry, short plays and manifestos, continues to be performed in Chicago with occasional events in Los Angeles and New York.

Is this notable enough to merit mention in the article? There are no references, none of the participants have articles, and there is nothing in this paragraph that indicates that this is anything of any particular importance. Plenty of arts groups claim descent from the Dadaists, but we are not going to list them all. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 17:44, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Considering that it was added by an editor with no other edits to his/her credit...I would say it is nothing more than advertising for a non-notable group. IrishGuy ^talk 18:32, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

'World War II to 1920"

When you search 'dada' on google the wikipedia description describes dada as World War II to 1920, obviously incorrect. I don't know how to change it though 220.253.130.134 (talk) 05:53, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Me neither, but it's wonderfully Dadaist! Totnesmartin (talk) 20:12, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Poorly-constructed article

A neophyte reading the "Overview" section will learn nothing, and the next section is about etymology.

Explain what it is in the thesis. Why is this such a hard concept for article editors to understand? 71.131.202.152 (talk) 19:58, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

new page

Crazy World http://free21g.blogspot.com by jose m. fernandez (sevilla, spain) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dadaworld (talk • contribs) 01:11, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Truisms

I have removed the following and bring it here for discussion. Quotation sections like this are not terribly helpful, as they give no source, and they remove the quotes from their context. Such information, when truly descriptive, edifying, and illuminating, should be integrated into the main text. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 02:36, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

"Dada is like your hopes: nothing

like your paradise: nothing

like your idols: nothing

like your heroes: nothing

like your artists: nothing

like your religions: nothing" - Francis Picabia

"Before Dada was there, there was Dada." - Hans Arp, 1919

"In principle I am against manifestos, as I am also against principles." - Tristan Tzara, 1919

"I can live without eating and drinking but not without DADA." - George Grosz, 1919

"Art is dead. Long live Dada." - Walter Serner

"I have forced myself to contradict myself in order to avoid conforming to my own taste." - Marcel Duchamp

"The normal state of man is Dada." - First International Dada Fair poster, 1919

"The true dadas are against Dada." - First International Dada Fair poster, 1919

"Art has nothing to do with taste. Art is not there to be tasted." - Max Ernst

"Dada signified nothing, it is nothing, nothing nothing . . ." - Francis Picabia, 1915

"Dada has never claimed to have anything to do with art." - Max Ernst, 1920

"No one can escape from DADA." - Tristan Tzara, 1920

Image copyright problem with File:An Anna Blume.jpg

The image File:An Anna Blume.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
• That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --10:45, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

added Fair Use Rationale per request..Modernist (talk) 04:06, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Derrida?

I removed the following from the lede and bring it here for discussion:

A letter by professors at the University of Cambridge, including W. V. Quine, David Armstrong, Ruth Barcan Marcus, and René Thom, accused renowned philosopher Jaques Derrida's work as being composed of "tricks and gimmicks similar to those of the Dadaists[,]" and that it did "not meet accepted standards of clarity and rigor".

This was inserted by Sweetmoose6 on 13 June without any explanation or edit summary. I fail to see the relevance, and no source is provided to prove this ever even occurred. Regardless, it certainly does not belong in the lede, if it belongs in the article at all. Anyone have any thoughts on this? ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 23:13, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Linked this movement to something bigger.Sweetmoose6 (talk) 04:11, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Good call. LombrizFeliz (talk) 02:13, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Removed "Meg Gröss"

I am suspicious of this entry in the list of notable Dadaists. After a bit of research, I have decided to remove it. The top 20 results from a Google Search were Wikipedia mirrors. All the results from a Google Image Search were from this Wikipedia page. She is redlinked (hardly a point for notability). She is not even on the complete List of Dadaists. Thus I have removed it. Please RS notability if replacing.

Peace and Passion ☮  ("I'm listening....") 20:26, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I have found where it was added in: this diff. Makes me think even more that this was a bit of ingenious "test-the-system" vandalism. The umlaut-dots really made it look like a "realistic" entry, compared to the others added at other times, like Barry Humphries!

Peace and Passion ☮  ("I'm listening....") 20:34, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Poor quality Article without adequate references

Inconsistencies regarding the date when Hugo Ball reads manifesto

This Dada page says Hugo read the manifesto on July 14, 1916, but the Cabaret Voltaire page says the manifesto was read on July 28, 1916. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.128.223.80 (talk) 16:20, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Two sources can contradict one another on such historical details. This is not at all uncommon. Such an inconsistency does not justify your ad hominem attack. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 17:42, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Woooo; it seems that someone got out of the wrong side of bed. I am sorry if I gave the impression I was making a "ad hominem attack". I am perplexed why you would think I am making an attack. The inconsistencies regarding the date indicate, to my mind, a poor threshold of verifiability. Merely because I raise what I consider to be a valid criticism this does not mean I am making a personal attack. I suggest that if nobody is really sure of the date then perhaps only the month and year should be included? It seems if editors can pick and choose between a number of dates, for a historical event, then it is impossible to adhere to a neutral point of view? If you wish to engage in further discussion it would be appreciated if you could assume good faith regarding my comments. I am merely seeking to improve upon the articles in question. 81.154.18.132 (talk) 10:52, 9 April 2010 (UTC)XVarn

Where is the reference that corroborates the date of 14 July 1916? I can't seem to find this reference therefore I suggest verifiability is lacking thus the day at least should be removed and only the month and year included. 81.154.18.132 (talk) 11:06, 9 April 2010 (UTC)XVarn

Significant edits necessary

This article reads a little bit like an 11th grade research paper. Amongst other things, it contains unnecessary detail. I believe an easy way to start cleaning it would be to remove "Origins of the word DADA" as this section contains mere speculations. There is no clear academic consensus on why DADA is named DADA and it is meant to be so. Also, the section is written in poor grammar. I have removed the section, please add any comments or questions about the decision. LombrizFeliz (talk) 02:07, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

First sentence

In what universe could this sentence, from the first line of the article, be true? Please correct it. -- 77.7.131.141 (talk) 15:44, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Can you please be more specific as to what you believe is the problem? Your hysterical message is not helpful. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 15:56, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Dada Magazine Translations

Why was the link to the Dada Magazine translations removed? The other "External Links" are to examples of Dada art and literature, and these magazines are nothing but Dada art and literature created by the most prominent and influential members of the "movement." They are the only english translations of these magazines on the internet. I feel like they are a great asset to anyone interested in Dada.

Individual links to each issue of the magazine:

ossilegium.com/dada/one/ ossilegium.com/dada/two/ ossilegium.com/dada/three/

The main website of the translator:

ossilegium.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slrrrrrrrrrr (talk • contribs) 08:41, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

"Dada was melding into surrealism"

I feel that this line is an unfair portrayal of the connection between Dada and Surrealism.

Dada did not "become" Surrealism. Surrealism was an artistically violent mutiny on Tzara's nihilism led by Andre Breton.

Tzara's movement was a fire eating away at the smug and bourgeois world of the "artistic" imitation of reality. Their poems were giant blood-drenched middle fingers pointed at the church, at the military, and most of all, at the artistic institutions that seemed, to them, to be stifling humanity's creative impulses. After they decimated the art world and more or less "took over", Breton decided that instead of further participating in this destruction he would begin a movement dedicated to creating art that went beyond reality. The idea parallels the driving force behind Dada but is different in that Breton's movement is about creating a new kind of art, whereas Tzara's was about the destruction of old art. Tzara's movement was necessary for Breton's to exist, but one is not the other. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slrrrrrrrrrr (talk • contribs) 09:06, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Where is absurdity?

Where is absurdity? I searched and the term "absurd" does not occur in the article. PPdd (talk) 01:46, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Although I agree with your point that the term "absurd" should appear in the main article, and a long paragraph or two should be devoted to the explanation of how the term or idea of absurd relates to Dadaism, it was not the main focus or foundation to Dadaism. Dadaism began as a way of mocking and shocking the ideas of the time.

Irshgrl500 (talk · contribs) 05:39, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Dada as 'anti-art' - some confusion

I have marked the comments in the Overview describing Dada as 'anti-art' as dubious and needing citation. 'Anti-art' is an often-used but unhelpful term in this case; while Dada challenged existing art mores, to claim that it rejected aesthetics is nonsensical.

Consider:

‘It is important to understand that Dada was not really anti-art as is often thought; quite the contrary, the Dadaists fervently believed in art as the repository and expression of humane and true civilized values. Believing this they naturally set out to purge existing art and create new and valid forms’.

- Simon Wilson, ‘Surrealist Painting’, Phaidon Press, 3rd ed, 1991, p. 5, and further comments, ibid.

94.172.224.249 (talk) 19:19, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Copied

Just thought the editors of this article would like to know that their hard work appears to have been copied to a Wikia page: [2]. The page creator, Metsfan67, seems to be the same Metsfan67 who links to the Wikia here. Not sure how or whether to pursue this so am leaving this note here. ClaretAsh 12:16, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

New York Dada not a result of the war?

So-called New York Dada (Duchamp, Picabia) was a result of the Armory Show, even if the War played a role later on, but NY was not the same as Zurich. --Radh (talk) 21:54, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Vague Intro, hard to understand for beginners

The introduction talks about everything related to Dadaism, except for what the hell it actually is. It starts off with "Dadaism is a cultural movement that began in Zurich, Switzerland, during World War I and peaked from 1916 to 1922.". I don't read the introduction to learn that it began in Zurich, I read to learn what it is.

The next thing after the first sentence is a very long quote that does give a very vague description of Dadaism, but it's mostly just history. A long quote might be appropriate for a college textbook where the goal is to develop an in-depth understanding, but the only reason I came here was because it was mentioned in another article and I wanted to have a general idea of what it is. Putting the history, origin, and etymology in the introduction only makes finding the essence of Dadism difficult for someone who has no idea what it is. After reading the introduction multiple times I still only know that it is a cultural movement associated with nonsense. Did a Dadaist write the intro?? Parthian Scribe 15:53, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Agreed, this does need some serious work. Sindinero (talk) 14:02, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Beatrice Wood

I added Beato (Beatrice) Wood to the section of "key figures" in Dadaism. How she missed the list, when this article was originally written, I'll never know. Beatrice Wood was one of the Publishers and Editors of The Blind Man. She is often referred to as "the Mama of Dadaism." "The Blind Man" was a New York magazine, and though Dadaism was regarded in a less serious manner by those in New York and the US, in general from a cultural and artistic standpoint, many of Dada figures based in New York, have direct links to Dadaism in Europe. Irshgrl500 (talk · contribs) 05:52, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Opening Section Style Problems

Aside from being a massive wall of text, the opening section of this article is not written in an neutral, encyclopedia-style tone. The following paragraphs in particular are problematic:

A movement that proclaimed to be nothing and everything,[4] Dada desperately sought a fresh start, a tabula rasa for culture and humanity. The prodigious savior, Dada, magically spurted in New York, Zurich, Paris, Berlin, Cologne and Hanover from 1915-1917 as a reaction to the atrocities of a war based on the rational decisions and so-called social order of the State (e.g., France, Germany, Austria-Hungary, etc.) Dada arose from the depths of individuals as a testament to the everlasting spirit of change. This spirit strove to offer a rebirth of thought that would wash away the tears and the disillusions of millions of lost souls and provide ground for humans to move forward, to forget the past and re-envision society. Dada as an art movement sought to unearth the façade established by misconceptions brought forth by definitions (such as that of the art establishment), yet it ultimately eroded and drowned in the boundaries of linguistics and semiotics. The movement lost its original premises and power of evoking change when it was granted an -ism by the consensus of general culture that turned Dada into Dadaism. Dada had thus been consumed by self-doubt and cast away by culture to the historical shadows of art—just another movement, just one of the many that have come and will continue to come.

To speak of Dada in retrospect or to search for a definite understanding of the movement, of its intentions and failures, is to betray the Dada spirit—that unmistakable freedom that impregnates the nuances of nature and human life; a vivacious force that sheds away the layers of words and exposes the vulnerabilities and inconsistencies of criticism and rationalism as well as any sort of structured-ism, may it be cubism, naturalism, or romanticism. Any analysis of Dada in the past has inherently been limited by the scope of its definition as an art movement. There is an emphasis on its origins in the arts, and for many a writer and critic, Dadaism’s roots are human, while the claim of a spirit—the Dada spirit—existing before and after humans, is usually shrugged off as another illogical entity created as a form of revolt. The metaphysical nature of the movement, the same that desperately fought to transform human consciousness, is infinitely restricted by the lens imposed upon it by general culture. In order to understand the ideological roots of the movement, and its intrinsic reliance in the Dada spirit that lasted more than the movement itself, it is necessary to review the history of Dada, for it clearly shows the limits imposed on it by culture and society. Dada was not just another avant-garde art movement that perished under the weight of its incomprehensible and destructive nature; it was not an ephemeral thought that vanished with the past, but rather a way of thinking that continues to permeate society. Dada is an unnamable entity that defies logic and leaves the critic impotent from further study or elucidation. Dada achieved the impossible by superseding itself, by tearing itself away from Dadaism, adapting with time, and becoming the definition of art and nature, one void of words and formalisms.

"The public mind, consciously or not, needs a definition, any definition, because public taste, as Duchamp showed it, is based on stereotypes which most of the time bear no relation to truth or reality"[5]

This is more akin to a nostalgic retrospective on the movement than an informational article. Obviously somebody worked really hard on it, but there's a time and a place. Wikipedia is not that place. Proposing removal of the aforementioned paragraphs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by St ethereal (talk • contribs) 17:14, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Ireland

As a researcher of the Surrealist movement in Ireland, I have been perplexed by this entry on 'Guinness Dada' ever since it appeared - I have never found a published source on the Dada movement in Ireland, the Guinness archive has no record of this group, and this page appears to be the only source of information online. The article here https://www.musicworks.ca/featured-article/profile/jennifer-walshe-spins-fine-tale indicates the three persons listed to have been fabricated by a contemporary artist. I have therefore removed the entry.

Ireland

Dada in Ireland centered around the activities of Dermot O'Reilly, Kevin Leeson and Brian Sheridan. All three worked at the Guinness brewery in Dublin - for this reason the Irish Dadaists are usually referred to as the "Guinness Dadaists." They were most active between 1920 and 1922, during the period of the Irish War of Independence. Led by O'Reilly, the Guinness Dadaists put on performances and created sculptures, wall hangings and sound poetry. The latter was composed using the rules of pronunciation of the Irish language and as such is extremely difficult for non-Irish speakers to read or perform.

Sound poetry by Dermot O'Reilly, ca. 1921

the revision - dada dada data &c. is the most accurate. Leave it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.25.211.33 (talk) 23:44, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Non-free images removed

If you're going to have non-free images in the article, you must comply with the Non-free content criteria. Criteria #8, "Contextual significance. Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding." has long been interpreted as requiring that the non-free works be the subject of critical discussion within the article, and not used for purely decorative purposes. If you would like to add the Raoul Hausmann images back, you must first use prose to describe those specific pieces (any why they are especially important/significant/indicative of the genre). Also keep in mind section 1, which says, in part, "Non-free content is used only where no free equivalent is available, or could be created, that would serve the same encyclopedic purpose.". If other artists' work that is freely licensed is equally as important/significant/indicative of the genre, use that. Sven Manguard Wha? 16:37, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

It doesn't make sense. Policy does not say that images have to be "the subject of critical discussion within the article". We are exercising editorial discretion in providing images that shed light on the topic of the article. That is the "contextual significance". This is an article within the visual arts with the title Dada. This is not an art movement that is currently being produced. This is 100% historical. There is no new "dada art" being produced. There are a finite number of extant dadaist works of art. WP:NFCC allows for the use of non-free content under these circumstances. There is nothing "decorative"[3] about such use. The aim of the article, or at least one of the most important aims of the article, is to provide the reader with a visual understanding of what "Dada" is. Editors with an interest in this art movement have reached the determination that the two images in question represent the art movement well, in a way that educates the reader to the appearance of "dada". Bus stop (talk) 17:34, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Omissions

Please include the contributions of Herbert Matter to this entry. Thank you.

~ Pat Gay

Saturday, September 27, 2014 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.118.44.217 (talk) 12:49, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

Please come to the point

The first few paragraphs guff on and on and on about when Dada originated, where it took place and its influences and even how Dadaists did what they did but it fails completely to say what Dada art actually is. This rather crucial information is almost completely omitted from the article. It frequently duplicates information. By the second sentence I am losing patientce and thinking, please come to the point. This article needs to be completely rewritten. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.225.172.115 (talk) 20:05, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

I agree, I think this article needs to be more relevant and easier to understand. --86.11.3.164 (talk) 22:21, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Art that is not art

You mentioned in the article that Dada was an "informal international movement", however I feel as though that point was not given much attention. giving that point more depth would be really helpful. For instance, elaborate more on the concept of "anti-art". What exactly does that mean? From what I gathered, Dada art was not considered art just like Dada artists were not considered to be artists.Although Dada focused on speaking out against nationalism, materialism, and rationalism, it also focused on moving away from artistic traditions because they don't wish to be a part of a bourgeoisie society that "supported" World War I. Dada is meant to metaphorically spit in the face of society. It is meant to shock through the use of sarcasm, sadistic humor, obscenities, and visual puns. Many of your quotations seem to be one-sided, because they talk about how Dada art is very "destructive" and "sick". According to you, Dada embraced chaos and irrationality. Why? It would be helpful to add additional quotes from artists who believed that Dada was not just delinquent artwork. Another point that wasn't made was that the only rule in Dada is that there are no rules, so basically there are no restrictions to the types of media being used. Besides collage, photo-montage and readymades, even though they were refined and developed during that time, it would be useful to mention that Dada also had its place in performance art, poetry, painting, sculpture, and literature. To only focus on the artwork would be limiting, unless the article was specifically about "Dada Art". (Jjp73 (talk) 21:06, 30 January 2015 (UTC))

Italy - Evola

Why is there a phrase saying that Evola was an assistant to Benito Mussolini (quote taken from the article 2015-05-18) ? This information is accompanied by a general citation of his works on Dada which say nothing about his personal biography. Anyone reading his biography (or even autobiography Path of Cinabar) can easily see that he was in no way an assistant to Mussolini. This information is misleading.

Avant-garde circles outside France

For the record: This text had been restored to the article three times now. The importance of the text speaks for itself, from a historical context (the origins and spread of Dada). It was removed by Gentlecollapse6 under the pretext that this is "ancillary trivia".

Avant-garde circles outside France knew of pre-war Parisian developments. They had seen (or participated in) Cubist exhibitions held at Galería Dalmau, Barcelona (1912), Galerie Der Sturm in Berlin (1912), the Armory Show in New York (1913), SVU Mánes in Prague (1914), several Jack of Diamonds exhibitions in Moscow and at De Moderne Kunstkring, Amsterdam (between 1911 and 1915). Futurism developed in response to the work of various artists. Dada subsequently combined these approaches.

Coldcreation (talk) 12:24, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

The majority of this paragraph is devoted to a listing of various Cubist art shows. How this sort of information has anything explicit to do with Dadaism, or with summarizing the Dada movement for an unfamiliar reader approaching the lead paragraphs of a Wikipedia page, is not remotely clear to me. Unless you can provide a justification, they have to go—there's clearly no "consensus" for it, the page is littered with un-cited claims and POV writing as it is. GentleCollapse16 (talk) 12:28, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

A reminder that the influence of Cubism on Dada is already explicitly stated in the lead. Why such extra detail should also be present in the lead is beyond me. GentleCollapse16 (talk) 12:29, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

It is mentioned in the lead and in the main body of text, per WP:MOS. That the Cubist precursor is beyond you is irrelevant to the article. The originators of Dada, (arguably) Duchamp and Picabia, were both members of the Cubist movement, and had participated in the exhibitions listed. The work of certain artists in those countries developed in response to the (then) radical work, the approach of which would subsequently, and in response, evolve into Dada.Coldcreation (talk) 12:41, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

And all of that is, once again, already summarized in the lead, which already states the influence of Cubism, Duchamp, etc. There's no need for a listing of specific art shows and dates which were not even directly tied to Dada, but which only influenced it. If you would like to keep that information, relocate it to the body of the article, where that kind of background detail is appropriate. GentleCollapse16 (talk) 12:49, 14 January 2017 (UTC)