Talk:Characters of Fate/stay night

About Archer and Shiro

The article gets somehow confusing. Archer is revealed to be the future Shiro only in the Unlimited Blade Works route, while in the Fate one (if I correctly remember) he does not even use the Trace skill, and simply remains as an unnamed blacksmith from some english-speaking country. It should be rewritten, I think. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.64.56.237 (talk) 14:45, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

late reply I know, still, Archer traced his twin swords in all his appearance. Exlanzer (talk) 17:25, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Emiya Saber.jpg

The image Image:Emiya Saber.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
• That this article is linked to from the image description page.

The following images also have this problem:

• Image:Shinji Rider.JPG
• Image:Rin Archer.jpg
• Image:Ilya.JPG

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --11:47, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Moving some characters from main to secondary

I believe that several of the characters currently listed as main characters don't belong there:

• Shinji Matō
• Berserker
• Rider

These servants really aren't main characters at all, and Shinji was only important in one arc of the story. Sakura Matō is a bit iffy as well, since she didn't have much of a role until fairly late, and it was more related to the second-last arc in the story. If there's no disagreement, I will drop the above from main characters to secondary (I'll leave Sakura there for the time being). -- Highwind⁸₈⁸, the Fuko Master 01:20, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Sakura is the main antagonist of the Heaven's Feel route, which is the true canonical route of Fate/Stay Night and the ending that leads to Hollow Ataraxia. She is as entitled to being a main character as any other characters. There are far better things to moderate with your stupid on Wikipedia than these articles.70.83.146.151 (talk) 23:31, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

I've moved Shinji, Berserker, and Rider to Supporting Characters. Archer stays in main as they even devote a final closing credits at the anime series's halfway point to his defeat, and if he's Shirou in one of the story arcs, that sounds like a main character. AngusWOOF (talk) 16:54, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

What is this?

Alright, I read the debate on the proposals of deletion for some Fate/Stay Night characters and also read that they were going to be merged. In short, are they going to be reduced to little meaningless character descriptions as seen in List of Fate/stay night characters with only a few exceptions? Honestly, the info regarding the weapons' legends in the Gilgamesh article (and others that are going to be merged, such as the Rider (Fate/stay night) article) linked me to other interesting things, such as the origins behind the names and how "Enuma Elish" is actually the Babylonian creation myth; in short, it would be a shame (in my opinion) for such things to be removed due to a lack of sources. If the articles were merged, they probably won't have those weapon descriptions in the new page and consequently those references to other real-world things (or legends) as well. Is it possible to reconsider the merge or would that require a whole new debate?

Although this isn't really related to the discussion, is Jimmy Wale's statement, "Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's what we're doing." basically a lie? All these merges and things that happen in Wikipedia and such... Expo377 (talk) 06:43, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Stuff that doesn't meet our notability guideline don't get articles. And a lot of the stuff in the character articles is original research and extraneous plot summary in any case. — sephiroth bcr ^(converse) 08:32, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, because notability is an excuse to be a stupid douche and want to delete everything when Wikipedia's purpose is to be as complete as possible about every subject possible. 70.83.146.151 (talk) 11:07, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

No, Wikipedia's purpose is to be an encyclopedia and cover subjects of note, not everything in existence. If you want everything in existence, go to Wikia. — sephiroth bcr ^(converse) 01:08, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

It's far less convenient to everyone if we move all these articles to Wikia. Having a large amount of information in a single site is much better than telling people to go to another, ad-supported site that isn't even on most people's Favorites lists. And if the character bios don't meet notability guidelines, why isn't the entire Fate series just one line in a list of Visual Novels page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.91.59.58 (talk) 09:04, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Oh goodness, it seems Wikia doesn't even have a Fate/stay Night article but only one on TYPE-MOON; is there any other database that has everything in existence? Expo377 (talk) 07:58, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Blah blah blah lack of notability, original research, extraneous plot summary. Everything listed in the Fate/Stay Night wiki is STRAIGHT OUT OF THE GAME. There is no 'original research'. Find me examples of original research and we'll talk. Extraneous plot summaries? Okay, yeah, that I can sorta agree on-- some characters do have a bit of extra summaries that aren't NECESSARY. However, everything in the articles is spot-on to the series and like someone above me mentioned, it all links to things found in the real world(tm) that are also vital to the characters.

IMO leave the articles as-is. The statistics and the weapon summies need to stay, because they are the key parts of the articles. If we all compressed it into one list, people would whine it's too big. If we remove that stuff, people will whine it's incomplete. If we dumb it down, people will whine it's not informative enough.

You ever heard of the expression IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT? Yeah, this applies here. Seriously, what's wrong with the articles? Are they hurting anyone? Look at the size of the talk pages of most of them. They need to stay, and idiots need to stop tearing down articles for the fun of it. Wikipedia is everything by everyone for everyone. It's the most complete encyclopedia about absolutely everything ever. Leave it alone and let it grow. 70.83.146.151 (talk) 09:04, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Welcome to current day Wikipedia. Notability guidelines originally weren't guidelines and in fact began more or less as an excuse to delete articles people didn't like where it was used to claim that not enough people care about the article (usually applied with no threshold for what would count as enough people), so it should get deleted in spite of the minority that does care, along with generic references to concern about server space, assertions that it's "unencyclopedic," vague claims of POV, claims of fancruft, claims that it's insignificant, assertions that it should belong somewhere else and therefore not on wikipedia (which is in fact a non sequitur), etc. Overuse of these stock excuses to delete articles, frequently applied with complete disregard to the article's merits and backed with half-assed (if any) justifications commonly delving into circular logic, non-sequiturs, or mere assertions, slowly became refined over the course of the english wikipedia and turned some of these excuses into official guidelines for articles, which now means that even a democratic consensus to keep is generally not enough to block deletion, etc. in stark violation of WP:IAR (which has now become a de facto non-policy). Most of the editors nowadays who blindly implement these policies have never heard of inclusionism either and assume that it is always proper to delete anything if a guideline would approve of it, so nowadays there quickly exists automatic consensus to delete anything. This issue is commonly exacerbated by frequently inviting people who have no relation, experience, or knowledge whatsoever in regard to the article or its subject matter and so are generally more than happy to help implement policy because they completely lack any and all perspective whatsoever on why these articles should be preserved in spite of the guidelines. The moral of the story is that you should give up and wikipedia deletion policies are pretty much beyond help now. -24.7.96.89 (talk) 05:46, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree that there is this great concern regarding articles being deleted on various anime,menga related artiles, and it seems like there is also some unfairness between series that's already translated and released in America and series that's not. Personally, I think fictional characters in Fate that also has historical counterpart are much more NOTABLE then popular series characters like BLEACH or Dragon Ball. I mean, BLEACH has more then ten character specific articles on completely fictional stuff, while many of the articles in Fate/Stay Night refer to historical topic in other section of the Wikipedia. Just because Fate/Stay Night isn't as popular doesn't mean that it hold no scholastic value on how popular culture view historical figures. Right?

No offense to BLEACH fans or anyone specific, but we must understand here that the overall guideline on Anime related section are quite vague. A lot of topic that is NOT NOTICEABLE to English speaking country doesn't means that it's not noticeable in other parts of the world. Type-Moon work is holding great influences within the Dojinshi market right now, and that's a BIG influence. Is that not Noticeable in terms of the anime/menga industry in Japan?

I would just like to add that this is yet another section of wiki that has fallen victim to 'notability' deletions. I remember reading the excellent articles several months back while watching, and I wanted a refresher on the stuff but some douche bangs apparently didn't want me and a lot of people to read it. It apparently is only notable if some elitist wiki editing group knows about it. Anyone know where we can all at least see the older versions? Vague excuses like it taking up too much disk space on the server is a joke. It MIGHT have been relevant 10 years ago, but not now.

I wonder what should be done now? Marlon unknown (talk) 01:34, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

You cant do anything about it.

Reintroduce article details on Sakura Matō

I would like to propose an idea to reintroduce an article that contains details of Sakura Matō

Reason:

1. Sakura was the antagonist of one arcs in Fate Stay Night, Heaven's feel

2. The direction of the main article of FSN seems to concentrate on anime version which focuses on Fate arc.I believe the article(the main one) should give equal importance to the other arcs because FSN was originally a visual novel, not a anime.

3. The details of Heaven's feel was a lot and messy and was hard to draw any information of Sakura Matō from it.

However, I think we should discuss if my move is correct or not. If no one reply within a month, I will proceed in creating a separate article for Sakura Matō.

Regards nipaa1412

60.50.9.44 (talk) 09:22, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Merge

These four do not currently assert notability. If nobody can add creation and reception information, they should be merged. TTN (talk) 01:34, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

•  Support, merge: in the absence of real world information, these descriptions are better presented in a proper character list. G.A.S^talk 05:42, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

• Against , remain status quo: These four are the main characters of the visual novel. Knowing character in detail is part of enjoying the visual novel. I believe wikipedia should retain the separate articles for these characters Nipaa1412 (talk) 04:52, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

• Against Same reason as above.85.139.80.3 (talk) 17:08, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

• Support Though if they can be improved with real-world content, restore 'em.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 18:54, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I guess it is useless to discuss after all; you have decided the answer from the beginning 124.13.148.207 (talk) 10:57, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

"Fate/stay night character redirects to lists"

Why do the characters no longer have their own pages and get linked to the character list page? I don't know. Maybe someone does. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sifsclub (talk • contribs) 01:59, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Because they were not notable outside of the game or anime series. Characters need to have independently notable from whatever work they are from by receiving significant coverage by reliable sources that are independent of the subject. --Farix (Talk) 10:35, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Not notable? Hardly. These characters show up in a video game, visual NOVEL (not game >_>), and an anime. Saber even has a figurine modeled after her, along with keychains and the like. Fate/stay night characters also show up in games like MUGEN; people make desktop wallpapers for these characters. What's NOT notable are articles like Pottersville. Don't go all technical on me; I'm somewhat aware of WP: Other stuff exists. I'm guess I'm just tired of well written, interesting articles based on historical figures getting deleted based on the whims of a few. The real reason is that this thing got a bit popular, so it caught the attention of some elitist, minimalist editors. I find it funny that in the discussion "Merge", though it was such a close margin (3 to 2 in favor of merging the characters), it got merged. Is this allowed? I'm no hardcore Wikipedian so I'm not really sure if that was allowed; if I was aware of this merge, I would have been against it. Whatever, I'm going off on a digression.

It seems to me if someone actually looks up the sources that are clearly there, anyone could "unmerge" them as long as they added enough justifying info such as a per-character reception section. These characters ARE notable and anyone who wants to spend the time gather the evidence has a huge case for this. Each character is in SEVERAL games now, and there are dozens if not hundreds of character figures for them.AllUltima (talk) 11:57, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

As for reliable sources, do we need a section on reception for the characters (example, like Hatake Kakashi )? Expo377 (talk) 01:46, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Not notable? Excuse me while I laugh my ass off.

http://www.hlj.com/product/ENT01389 http://ocha.nierchi.net/2009/09/28/good-smile-company-fate-unlimited-codes-%E2%80%93-saber-lily-distant-avalon/ http://www.cosplayfu.com/product/Saber+Cosplay+Costume+from+Fate+Stay+Night http://www.yesasia.com/us/nendoroid-fate-unlimited-codes-saber-lily/1020431888-0-0-0-en/info.html http://www.toyslogic.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&zenid=251fbn4t0s0o80g1pbleoauh23&keyword=saber

What was that about not being notable? Also, if you're going to be extreme and say something like a character needing a movie to be notable....http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=10981

@ sifsclub: It was probably that tnt guy that deleted the page. He's the delete-happy one here. Hell Pyro (talk) 07:33, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Undoing the "Merge"

Can we reopen this for discussion? I understand that the previous character articles did not do enough to justify notability, but this does not mean that they weren't notable. Someone just needs to write a reception section and such. For those of you who think the characters are not notable, consider this list:

Here is a list of Fate media:
· 26 episode anime TV series
· Movie slated for January 2010
· manga (9 volumes, ongoing)
· Original PC Visual Novel (Exceptionally popular in Japan, now accessible in English)
· PS2 - Realta Nua (port)
· PS2+PSP - Fate Unlimited Codes
· PSP - Fate/Tiger Colosseum
· PSP - Fate/Extra (in development)
· Fate/Hollow Ataraxia PC Visual Novel
· Light Novels (Fate/Zero) prequel (4 volumes)

Merchandise is noteworthy as well. *LOTS* of figures. Saber has an especially wide array of figures. This extends way past any 1 media. Plushies and other memorabilia are on par with other mainstream anime franchises. Additionally, there are many fan projects, including the completed Original FSN visual novel complete English translation by Mirror Moon(including voice patch) and NDS port for visual novel(including voice patch).

Aside from the wide array presented here which shows that CLEARLY each of the main characters extends beyond the anime or visual novel, the reception is extremely positive as well. I think no one was paying attention when this "merge" was decided on. Please tell me we can reevaluate this. AllUltima (talk) 13:00, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Hopefully we can, or else I'm going to have to bring this up to some people in high places (since I don't really know how to undo a merge myself). The worst part is, it seems that someone deleted the edit summaries and history when merging it; so, even if someone did revert the merge, the information wouldn't be there (at least that's what it seems to me). Expo377 (talk) 22:47, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Fixed tons of factual inaccuracies

The person who made the previous edits apparently doesn't know of the VN's existence, tagging some things as 'in the anime' (when they also occur in the VN), not clarifying which parts are anime-original, and some gross factual inaccuracies (like stating that Shirou traces Excalibur in Fate against Berserker, Rider's NP is 'Pegasus', Gae Bolg works by bouncing... LOL?).

All inaccuracies and errors should be fixed now, along with several grammatical errors.

Overmage (talk) 04:55, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Nope, I haven't played the visual novel. Thanks for fixing the oversight of Caliburn/Excalibur. As for Rider's NP, she doesn't reveal that Bell name until she fights Saber so blame the English dub for not making that clear. Gae Bolg does appear to reflect/bounce off the ground in the anime, so if there's a better word, throw it in. AngusWOOF (talk) 05:47, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

The actual explanation for how Gae Bolg works is rather long and unwieldy, so I wasn't sure if I should put it in. It works by reversing cause and effect, so basically, it will be thrown because it has already pierced its target, and not the other way round, meaning the fact that it pierces the enemy is a foregone conclusion regardless of how an enemy dodges. Essentially, it works by twisting fate. The bouncing effect was actually the spear curving at an impossible angle to hit. The thing is that it was a very long piece in the VN itself and as such I thought it might be a bit too much infodumping to explain it there. Nevertheless, it does not bounce, so I removed that part. If someone can explain Gae Bolg in a way that doesn't TL;DR people to death, they should put it in. :p Overmage (talk) 05:58, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Illya's a side character?

I know it's because of UBW but Sakura doesn't do much in that route either. I have had a discussion on a forum and we ended up saying that Illya was a main character rather than supporting. Does she qualify? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.147.162.224 (talk) 23:04, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Plenty of original research

There's a lot of original research introduced into this article. Not only is none of it cited, some of it is factually inaccurate, or seemingly based off personal interpretations of the text. Please help by citing any overly wordy explanations, or by removing dubious stuff. 210.162.17.232 (talk) 07:21, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Potential new characters

Considering how Illya, Kiritsugu and Sakura might move more coverage thanks to the new Fate series focused on them it might be possible to give them character articles. Kiritsugu in particular has a lot of creation information if you check type moon wiki.Tintor2 (talk) 02:54, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

Merge 2020

After doing clean up of detailed fictional information I've been wondering if the List of Fate/Zero characters should be merged with List of Fate/stay night characters. While the two are different series, there is quite overlapping with the same characters like Saber, Kotomine, among others especially since Kiritsugu was given an article. Please share your comments to reach a consensus.Tintor2 (talk) 16:47, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Support the character list is pretty small and can be merged back. Personally, i would suggest having sections be divided into "Introduced in Fate/Stay night" and "Introduced in Fate Zero"

Support for the reason (and suggestion) above ^ Sarcataclysmal (talk) 22:01, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

I see. However, I wonder if the title of the page should be changed though.Tintor2 (talk) 22:40, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

I'd change it; as to what, I'm unsure of right now, but I'd definitely change it. Sarcataclysmal (talk) 01:13, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

I thought "List of Fate characters" but that would be the entire franchise like what happened to the .hack list.Tintor2 (talk) 23:08, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Support for both the merge and having a List of Fate characters. But will the Grand Order characters will be merged here as well or not? Mirrorthesoul (talk) 20:17, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

I'm not experienced with Grand Order so I think somebody else might need to work in that.Tintor2 (talk) 16:06, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Given this, switching to being merged. Klbrain (talk) 11:11, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Waver Velvet

Hope I can add this here since he's a Fate character as well. Is it possible that we can make a page for Waver since he's also a character that makes multiple appearances in the Fate universe? Mirrorthesoul (talk) 21:12, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

@Mirrorthesoul: Waver doesn't appear in the visual novel. His only inclusion so far was the last episode of Ufotable's Unlimited Blade Works. He is present in List of Fate/Zero characters and The Case Files of Lord El-Melloi II. If you are interested in giving him an article, remember to follow the guidelines WP:Notability and make it like other Fate characters who have sections dedicated to real world information.Tintor2 (talk) 21:24, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

@Tintor2: Yes, I know but since you're planning to do the merging of the Fate characters, I thought I would ask here in advance. Hope that was okay, since no one answered in the Fate/Zero characters talk page. And I will :) Thanks! Mirrorthesoul (talk) 21:41, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

@Mirrorthesoul: I only thought about merging the two works directly connected but I'm not sure about the others since I haven't watched the others.Tintor2 (talk) 22:00, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

@Tintor2: I think you can also add the spin off characters as well. Mirrorthesoul (talk) 22:23, 7 October 2020 (UTC)