Talk:Bishop of Sodor and Man

Duplication

In some measure this article duplicates the older Bishop of the Isles. A degree of merging might be a good idea. Angus McLellan (Talk) 22:13, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Alternate line?

I'm not sure whether to add the line in the Handbook of British Chronology or not. Scottish history isn't my strong suit, I'd rather leave this to folks better versed in the sources. But I do have a list from the Handbook that doesn't exactly overlap with what's given. Be happy to give it to someone who has a better clue about the time frame so I don't mess up the current article. Ealdgyth | Talk 00:54, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

This list is pretty appalling. If you could fix it, great. My sources only cover it up until John Dongan, when the "Scottish part" splits off. After that I can look to see if the pre-Dongan section still has problems. Regards, Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 21:30, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Would anyone object if I just scrapped this and started over? Editing on this table is an eyestrain. Ealdgyth - Talk 23:21, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Rough at User:Ealdgyth/Isles, Sodor, Man, that's the "English" line. Ealdgyth - Talk 23:49, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Go for it! Bishop_of_the_Isles#List_of_known_bishops_of_Isles_.28including_Mann.29 has another version already in existence for these guys up to Dongan's deposition by anti-pope Clement VII in 1387. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 23:57, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Samuel Rutter, Bishop of Sodor and Man

I have added a link to a little page on Sam Rutter. (Msrasnw (talk) 10:37, 20 November 2008 (UTC))

Biases

I have slapped a tag on about this article's neutrality issues.

Firstly, it does not make clear that the Isle of Man has never been part of England.

Secondly, there is the more serious issue of historical continuity. Anglicans like to pretend that their dioceses and bishoprics have this, but in this particularly case, the article is written as if the Anglican and pre-Reformation diocese are one and the same. Certainly not. They are different denominations, and the Church of England appropriated the Roman Catholic names and titles. Along with their property...--MacRusgail (talk) 14:39, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Ecclesiastically the Diocese post-reformation at least has always been part of the English church, even if though in secular terms you are of course quite correct that it has never been part of England. In ecclesiasitcal terms the only difference between it and the other English diocese is that the bishop is appointed by Letters Patent, rather than by the issuance of a Conge d'Elire to the cathedral chapter. He is still nominated by the Crown Appointments Committee and (until recently) confirmed by the British Prime Minister (Gordon Brown has indicated that he wants to de-politicise the process). Prior to the English crown establishing overlordship over Man it was contested by the Scots, Irish and even various flavours of Vikings I believe - so I don't know who cliamed ecclesiastical supremacy. I know the Archbishop of York often claimed that the Scottish dioceses should recognise him as Primate, and the Archbishop of Tromso counter-claimed that as the northernmost Metropolitan they obviously owed him obedience and eventually metropolitans were created in Scotland to help resolve this. How this affected the positon of Man I don't know, or if any of the Irish Metropolitans put their own claims in. It's a lot to work out - and if you really want to make out there was no continuity between the pre- and post-reformation diocese, it's rather irrelevant.

Legally the diocese as a body corporate was just the same either side of the reformation, Diocesan property remained diocesan property, it was only monastic property that was confiscated by the Crown - the difference was in allegiance, rather than ownership (this has all just been done to death on talk:Roman Catholic Church). The bishops remained largely the same. Henry VIII created new dioceses - and these were recognised when the English church briefly re-acknowledged the Supremacy of the Pope under Mary. David Underdown (talk) 15:06, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Since you've made no further response in over a wekk, I'm taking off the POV tag for the reasons I give above. This article mentions Man's status as a Crown Dependency (and commetns taht the nomination by the PM of the UK is somewhat anomalous). No claim of descent from teh pre-Reformation Dicoese is made in the article in any case. David Underdown (talk) 12:21, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

New file File:George Murray by Samuel Lane.jpg

Recently the file File:George Murray by Samuel Lane.jpg (right) was uploaded and it appears to be relevant to this article and not currently used by it. If you're interested and think it would be a useful addition, please feel free to include it. Dcoetzee 00:39, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

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Appointment of the bishop

Although the article is clear about the mechanics of appointing the bishop, I can't see a mention of how they are actually chosen. The Prime Minister or monarch would not do this for any bishop, they choose from a shortlist of 2 presented by the Church of England. Does that apply to the Bishop of Sodor and Man? Is the choice based on input from the island, or is it made by the C of E on the mainland? I'm intrigued. Hyperman 42 (talk) 23:16, 17 August 2023 (UTC)