Talk:Armed Forces (album)

US track listing

(What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love, and Understanding was definitely on the us release in 79. it says so in the article on the song, and i remember it on the album i had.76.254.33.165 (talk) 05:14, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140111103613/http://charts.org.nz/showitem.asp?interpret=Elvis+Costello+And+The+Attractions&titel=Armed+Forces&cat=a to http://charts.org.nz/showitem.asp?interpret=Elvis+Costello+And+The+Attractions&titel=Armed+Forces&cat=a
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140116221928/http://norwegiancharts.com/showitem.asp?interpret=Elvis+Costello+And+The+Attractions&titel=Armed+Forces&cat=a to http://norwegiancharts.com/showitem.asp?interpret=Elvis+Costello+And+The+Attractions&titel=Armed+Forces&cat=a
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120519050548/http://chartheaven.9.forumer.com/a/complete-uk-yearend-album-charts_post21.html to http://chartheaven.9.forumer.com/a/complete-uk-yearend-album-charts_post21.html

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Armed Forces (album)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: BennyOnTheLoose (talk · contribs) 14:23, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

• Checked top matches on Earwig's Copyvio detector. No concerns. (Matches are cited quotes, song titles etc).

Background and recording

• Three sources seems quite a lot for the first sentence. Does the Gouldstone source cover all of the info?

• Trimmed to liner notes and Gouldstone

• What's the source content supporting "toured excessively"? (I think I've got the book somewhere, but not to hand)

• I recall Thomson supporting it throughout chap. 4 (hence why I chose to source entire chapters rather than individual pages for most books – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 15:43, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

• I had in mind that it could either mean "toured too much" or "engaged in excesses whilst on tour", and probably both could apply. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:44, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

• Changed to "underwent a rigorous touring schedule" as to me that's more appropriate/encyclopedic. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 13:23, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

• "Returning from This Year's Model was" should be "...were" as two people are mentioned.

• Done

• "Nevertheless, Costello's attitude had an effect on recording. Unlike the previous album, he asserted himself..." The "Nevertheless" seems a bit out of place. Maybe lose theat sentence and starte the next with something like "Unlike the previous album sessions, Costello asserted himself..."?

• Good with me, done

• "Lowe remained instrumental in keeping high morale and over orchestration" doesn't quite read right to me.

• That's definitely a typo. Rereading the source now (Thomson, p. 126). Removed the 'over' – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 15:43, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

• "was adamant that he and the Attractions reached a level of musical agreement that would never be matched again" - "was adamant" seems a bit strong given that the source has "probably". (Shame the article doesn't mention when he said this, given that there was a mid-90s reunion.)

• Changed to 'contended'. I agree there

• "Recorded" appears three times in the text towards the end of the section. Maybe reword a bit, e.g. "originally recorded by his band Brinsley Schwarz and released on The New Favourites of... Brinsley Schwarz" to "originally released on The New Favourites of... Brinsley Schwarz" by his band Brinsley Schwarz"

• Did some rewording – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 15:43, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Music and lyrics

• [7][10][22][15] - are these all needed here? If so, they could be put in order. There are some other refs out of order too, but probably best to leave this task til near the end.

• Yeah probably not, removed the liner notes.

• "relative commercial success with My Aim Is True and This Year's Model" - relative to what?

• 'Relative' in this case means like 'decent'. They weren't number ones but they also weren't number number 80s either, does that make sense? – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 15:43, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

• It's a phrase I use myself in this sense; probably fine here for GA but might be challenged if you take this to FA. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:44, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

• "displayed fascist themes" / "utilitsed fascist ideals greatly" - I'm not sure these are quite right. To me they suggest fascist songs.

• They're not fascist per-se, but based on what I've read, they do say that fascist themes are present – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 15:43, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

• "displayed fascist themes" is OK, but I'm not happy with "Costello utilitsed fascist ideals greatly for Armed Forces". I think it needs a tweak along the lines "references fascist ideals frequently" or "references fascism throughout" (there's also a typo I've just noticed on "utilitsed". BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:44, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

• Done

• "uses his signature wordplay on the album to great effect" needs an attribution. (I personally agree, but the article needs to be neutral.)

• Fixed

Side One

• "Bebe Buell" can just be "Buell" as she is introduced earlier.

• Whoops, fixed

• "As the second track, it contains the first reference" - suggest removing "As the"; maybe mention second track a bit earlier so that this can just start "It contains the first reference"

• Fixed

Side Two

• "underhand recruitment" looks like it needs a citation. If it's not a direct quote then perhaps expand the phrase slightly.

• It's from Gouldstone, moved up the cite from the second sentence as he also sources the second sentence – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 15:43, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

• "an army soldier" can just be "a soldier"

• Done

• 'busy bodies' - why single quotation marks?

• That's how I interpreted Gouldstone. Removed.

• "is a waltz that targets the worst aspects of British life" - what do sources say that support this? (I'm aasking this a few times as I dont have access to hand, not because I am assuming that they don't support it)

• Hinton supports waltz while Murray supports the content – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 15:43, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

• It has been musically compared to John Cooper Clarke's "You Never See a Nipple in the Daily Express" - what do sources say that support this? (I've only heard it without musical accompaniment)

• Like the above point, both Hinton and Murray (surprisingly)

• to the gratification of American college campuses" - what does the source say that support this?

• Per Costello in the 2002 liner notes: "'Chemistry Class' was a reaction to the complacency of some of the university campuses that we visited on those first trips to America." Tried to reword it as best I could. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 15:43, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Title and packaging

• Seems fine.

Release and promotion

• "It reached ..."- I'd prefer "The single reached..."

• Done

• "and went gold by year-end" - some words missing.

• Oops, fixed

• "significant radio exposure" - where? Previous sentence is about the US, following sentence is about the UK.

• Clarified (UK)

• "which peaked at number 29" - "and peaked..." or a new sentence.

• Done

Critical reception

• Seems fine.

Tour and aftermath

• "In March, a racist-filled exchange between Costello and Stephen Stills, where the former American music, was leaked to the public and received additional backlash." Seems to be missing some words.

• Damn. Surprised no one's pointed this out before now. Fixed.

• "Years later, Costello continued to feel .." - optionally, you could add something from Unfaithful Music & Disappearing Ink for a more recent reflection.

• Good point. Found good quote from it (p. 339) and removed most of the RS quote in favor of that as you're right, that's much more appropriate. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 15:43, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

• "the tour's impact" isn't it more the events of one evening rather than "the tour"?

• Changed to 'incident'

Legacy

• "continued to include aggressive and fascist themes in his lyrics" like the earlier point, maybe something like "continued to reference aggressive and fascist themes in his lyrics"? (And something like "fascist elements described" present" rather than "fascist themes present")

• Done

Retrospective appraisal

• "he noted that neither record could" - perhaps "he noted that neither of the earlier records could"

• Done

• "demonstrate[ing]" - "demonstrat[ing]" (I think, per examples at MOS:PMC)

• Done

Rankings

• "In lists compiling the 100 greatest albums of all time" - reword so it shows these are opinions, not objective.

• That better? – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 15:43, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Reissues

• "1993," - I suggest "1993."

• Done

Track listing

• No reference(s) provided.

• Oops, added

Personnel/Charts/Certifications

• Looks OK.

External links and categories

• Looks like the Radio3Net is only an archive link so unlikely to stream. It didn't for me.

• Definitely outdated as Flash got shut down. Removed that.

• is included, but theres no reference to F-Beat in the text. Looks like it was released on F-Beat in 1980. Similarly it has without a mention of that label in the text.

• Releases on those labels may show up on Discogs but I can't support those via text so we will ditch those. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 15:43, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Images

• FUR provided for covers. The Lowe and Costello pics are CC. Captions and placement are fine. Alt text could be added for the album covers.

• Added alt text

Breadth and depth

• Appropriate for the subject. Sections are balanced.

Infobox and lead

• "Nieve contributed more to arrangements." - maybe add a word like "musical" or "song" to make it clear it isn't general arrangements.

• Done

• "Costello sought a more commercial sound, resulting in a more pop-oriented production reflecting the new wave era compared to the punk rock sound of his two previous records" - how about something like "Costello sought a more commercial sound than the punk rock style employed on his two previous albums, resulting in a more pop-oriented production reflecting the new wave era"?

• Works for me

• "several year-end lists" - add what they were lists of.

• Done

• "he would not tour there again until 1981" - doesn't really seem like that long a gap. Can a little more be added here and in the body to show that this is worth commenting on?

• How's that look? (different approach) – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 15:43, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

• many highlighting the production. Many noted" - reword to remove repetition of "many"

• Changed to 'others'

Hi, Zmbro. Thanks for your work on this article. I've got some questions and minor suggestions above. Feel free to challenge anything that you don't agree with. I'll check a few sources that I have and, assuming that goes well, be happy to AGF on the others. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:56, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

Checked some references from Bruno, Costello, Gouldstone, and Thomson sources. No issues. Placing on hold. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:07, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for reviewing. Finally not busy to get to work on this. I'll ping you when I'm done. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 14:17, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

BennyOnTheLoose Comments above. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 15:43, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks Zmbro. I've AGF'd on the references back to sources in your replies, and just have a couple of further questions. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:44, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

BennyOnTheLoose All fixed. Thanks again for reviewing! – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 13:24, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Passing this now, Zmbro. I made a couple of very minor changes ("Labelled" and "totalling" to align with British English; substituted "singled" for "signaled".) I suspect that "behavior" in the 1985 quote from Hinton 1999 should be "behaviour" but I'm not going to postpone passing the article for that. Great work, thank you. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:16, 8 May 2022 (UTC)