Wikipedia talk:Wikipedia Signpost/2019-06-30/News and notes

Fram

I support the abolition of the WMF. The WMF, however, cannot abolish us. Perhaps those caffè macchiatos enjoyed from the plush WMF offices convinced the occupants that Wikipedia content is magically created and WMF simply needs to find better ways to generate income. For some reason bitter internet seem unhappy with their enlightened masters. I guess the WMF just needs to order out for lunch and the problem will go away. Chris Troutman (talk) 16:53, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Well yes, but the loss of many experienced admins is serious and urgently needs to be halted (and if possible reversed). Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:26, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

@Chris troutman, while I agree with your general sentiment, the WMF are no longer in their big shiny office at 149 Montgomery Street, and the new, downsized, WMF offices look anything but plush. "Grim" would probably be a better word. ‑ Iridescent 18:30, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Not sure I'd describe their offices as "grim". I notice that whatever hack of an interior architect designed the workarea settled on the open plan model, which is all the fashionable rage at the moment for offices everywhere, yet countless studies have shown this model severely cripples productivity. In a way, this is a good metaphor for the Foundation. -- llywrch (talk) 22:24, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

The article is suggesting people resigned because they didn't agree with the T&S action. I saw at least one sysop stepping aside because they do not support actions that undermine the work of the T&S team. Ad Huikeshoven (talk) 18:56, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Is that not covered by in protest to the responses of others? ‑ Iridescent 19:04, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

@Ad Huikeshoven: That was exactly what I meant by in protest to the responses of others, and for other reasons --DannyS712 (talk) 19:15, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

@DannyS712: Thanks for clarifying that. Ad Huikeshoven (talk) 21:18, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

• Just finding out about the Fram situation today and that sucks, a clear abuse of power -Gouleg (Talk • Contribs) 19:28, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

No need for abolition of the WMF, a fork would be enough. The WMF would go one way (hopefully taking their Visual Editor with them), the humble drudges who actually do the work would go the other. Maproom (talk) 12:00, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Thailand

Last time I was at a Wiki-event in Bangkok, we had roadblocks, demonstrations, sit-ins, occupation of government buildings and an ever-rising level of insanity. You had to go everywhere on foot because the roads were sealed off. I hope things have calmed down since then. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:33, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Hawkeye7, I would be curious to know what that event was. I've lived in Thailand for almost 20 years now, been a Wikipedian for about 14, and an admin for nearly 9. I enjoy an excellent, safe, modern, and inexpensive lifestyle here - please don't make comments that have absolutely no bearing on today's Thailand. Instead, compare the current chaos in Hong Kong where incidentally I attended a very disorganised Wikimania in 2013. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 19:56, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

It was the 2013 Asia-Oceania Wheelchair Basketball Championships. You're quite right about there being chaos in Hong Kong at the moment, although I don't remember Wikimania 2013 being disorganised. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:10, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Perhaps you weren't there Hawkeye7. The venue was good, the tracks were fine, the accommodation was OK, but the logistics were catastrophic (those of us who arrived by planes at midday weren't able to access the accommodation until nearly midnight after being shunted around in a group from one huge subway station to another for hours on end. The peripheral events were a disaster, the midday food was food was fine (if you got some) but wasn't enough to go round and by the time the 100m line had been served there was nothing left and the afternoon sessions had already started. There was no chance of getting an evening meal anywhere if you were in the provided accommodation, and there was only food for the privileged invitees and WMF at the official welcoming function. The closing beach party at which most of the attendees spent 2 hours standing in line for the food t& drink tent where there was also no food or drink by the time they got there, and it was time to get back on the bus to return to town. Some of The WMF staff on their regular privileged junket were rude to the volunteers and I wish I hadn't bothered going and saved my money. I have been to dozens of international conferences in my time, and organised some of them. This was my worst experience, although Esino Lario was also pretty chaotic but truly excellent food and accomodation. - alone worth going for! If I have anything to do with it (and I don't know if I will be asked), the Bangkok event will run much smoother. At least I live here. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 20:49, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Kudpung, you know I was there because you spoke to me. (In Esino Lario too.) Hope it all goes well. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:56, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Actually, the main difference between a chapter and a user group is that a chapter is required to be a legal entity in its own right and is therefore subject to both local company laws in the places they operate in and bilateral agreements with WMF; while a user group does not need to have legal status and function under the auspices of WMF directly where a legal person is required. Deryck C. 16:24, 5 July 2019 (UTC)