Wikipedia talk:Unreferenced BLP Rescue/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Archive 5

June 2008

Now that I've finished off the Olympians, I thought I'd chip in a help out here. MY GOD. Thought I'd stick to sort of what I know best, sports. Did a comparison against Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Sports and games/Unreferenced BLPs and Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Sports and games/Unreferenced BLPs, opened them up... and BANG, ran straight into a Thai Football brick wall! And it wasn't even a player, but a coach! So after half an hour I think I've determined that his English name is probably normally spelt differently to what we have him as, and he's changed teams too!

Anyway, looking forwards, this month seems to be about 30% American, 45% entertainers (music, arts, acting etc), about 20% politicians, about 20% other topics and only 12% sportspeople. Afghan politicians and Bosnian volleyball players seem to be the most common intersection for those looking for a theme. I think I'll be off to do tennis or something easier instead! You guys are amazing being able to cover so many diverse topics. It drives me crazy! The-Pope (talk) 16:29, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

I think it helps to just sometimes ... y'know, embrace the randomness.  :) The more you laugh with it, the easier it gets. :) --j⚛e decker^talk 07:50, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Christmas gift idea

• When searching for sources, I am sure all of us have seen the fake-books published by folks like Books LLC that compile wikipedia articles and sell them. Apparently these books are not up to date, because here's one available now on amazon: Unreferenced BLPs from December 2007. This page-turner retails for a mere $109.64.--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 14:49, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Ha! That's quite the find...<Ponyo shuffles off to find her credit card>. On another cool but slightly more realistic note, I read on the wiki-en mail list that Tim Starling accidentally discovered Wikipedia archives from 2001, long thought lost forever. Now that's truly cool! --Jezebel'sPonyo^{bons mots} 15:00, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Ohh, really? Interesting. Is there a link to that?--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 16:13, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

I thought you might find that to be an intriguing tidbit. I just emailed you a copy. --Jezebel'sPonyo^{bons mots} 16:29, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Oooh, shiny. [1] --j⚛e decker^talk 17:00, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

That will surely be a classic one day.  ;-) --j⚛e decker^talk 16:47, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Last 12 of 2008

The last 12 of 2008... and what a bunch they are...

1. Kankuro Kisato - Japanese pro wrestler
2. Jeffrey M. Koopersmith - US politician/journalist/activist
3. Surinder Kumar - Indian engineer
4. Dominic Lam - Hong Kong actor/DJ
5. Floyd G. Robinson - Canadian educator - joe seems to be working on this one

   I did take a start at this, but am stumped, and have to run off for the day, I'll take a look tonight again if it's still around. :) --j⚛e decker^talk 17:20, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

6. Carlos Santana Morales - Mexican engineer at AfD. --j⚛e decker^talk 23:24, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
7. Mai Selim - Middle Eastern singer - another attractive female amazingly has sources to be found (in Arabic).--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 20:14, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
8. Gülhan Şen - Turkish TV presenter - Done.--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 18:30, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
9. Khemupsorn Sirisukha - Thai actress - Thai subjects are amazing challenges. But unlike our Thai footballers, you can apparently find sourcing for an attractive actress anywhere in the world (and multiple youtube clips).--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 19:50, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

   And that's why WP:HOTTIE needs to be elevated to policy. -- Whpq (talk) 20:10, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

10. Denagama Siriwardena -Sri Lankan poet - Very basic sourcing but some claims in the article may be dubious. -- Whpq (talk) 20:06, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
11. Somchai Subpherm - Thai football coach! Sourcing is poor but more than none. -- Whpq (talk) 19:36, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
12. Robert Wechsler (Copyvio) - German dancer
13. Simon Wills (musician) - English musician - Found a sketchy source and also prodded.--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 19:12, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

So altogether now... On the twelfth day of Christmas, my true love brought to me... 12 Bosnian Volleyballers, 11 Irish Hurlers, 10 Afghan politicians, 9 English ecentrics, 8 Iranian poets, 7 Bollywood film stars, 6 American activists, 5 Thai foot-ball-ers, 4 German djs, 3 French Olympians, 2 Turkish writers and a Mongolian archer! Merry Christmas, Hannukah (for last week), il-ul-filtri or whichever time of year it is for you, hope it's a good time! The-Pope (talk) 17:07, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Wow guys, I'm away for a day and you narrow the list down to <counts 1, 2, 3, 4, 5>...six entries! Well done. I'll be back tomorrow, with Christmas bells on, ready to tackle the next project. --Jezebel'sPonyo^{bons mots} 22:59, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Next up?

I believe April 2009 was chosen, correct? Would some kind individual be able to set it up on the main project page? The current number is 428. --Jezebel'sPonyo^{bons mots} 14:03, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

• We're rolling now. It went from 429 to 428 in the few minutes it took!--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 14:04, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Trophies for July 2008 (#10) & June 2008 (#11)

Suggestions for trophies for Projects #10 & #11 for the Trophy Cabinet are welcome. I was able to avoid Bosnian volleyballers, but maybe that's a good topic for #11?--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 14:10, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Well, there's this image of the European Volleyball Trophy for #11 if nothing more unique is put forward. --Jezebel'sPonyo^{bons mots} 14:43, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Articles at AfD

There are a fair number of articles from June 2008 at AfD that have received very little discussion. I would imagine that most of the folks here put some significant time into trying to source these articles, you may want to participate in these deletion discussions. —J04n(talk page) 16:09, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Full list of in-progress AfDs and PRODs is here.The-Pope (talk) 16:26, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Who did what

I know that this isn't a competition, that we all have surges and troughs in activity on this project and all the other projects available online and on wikipedia, but I actually tracked who did what on the June 2008 project. Basically if you either added the reference, or switched the tags to an incorrectly tagged article, or nominated an article for deletion or prod, I counted it against you. Some were done multiple times, so please don't worry about if it's out by a couple - it's just interesting, rather than a measure of anyone's importance or similar. So, the top 10 are:

1. User:Joe Decker - 30
2. User:The-Pope - 26
3. User:Hallucegenia - 18
4. User:TiMike - 18
5. User:Milowent - 17
6. User:J04n - 14
7. User:Wizardman - 11
8. User:Plad2 - 11
9. User:Whpq - 10
10. User:Trappedinburnley - 5

That totals up to 160 of the 198. The remaining 38 were done by 30 different editors - probably as part of the general UBLP watchlist work rather than this specific project. Maybe Joe should get the opportunity to pick the trophy or the next month's project! I'll track the April 2009 project too, but TiMike seems to have jumped into the lead!The-Pope (talk) 05:19, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Wow, sorry to see this so late, I'm surprised (given how great you guys are at this) that I topped a month--I probably won't this month, I've been offline mostly the last couple days, and you guys are *storming* through April. --j⚛e decker^talk 06:45, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Congrats to all. I am surprised that I made it into the list at all this month as RL has been rather demanding in the last few weeks.--Plad2 (talk) 07:14, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Tommy Leaman

I am requesting a second set of eyes to look at Tommy Leaman as it appears to be a hoax. The article's biography section points to Draco Rosa for teh bio, but it is in fact a different person when you compare the facts of the article such as date of birth and so on. The same editor tried to alter the Draco Rosa article (see this diff) but has since been overwritten by subsequent edits. I can find no sources to support a separate person "Tommy Leaman" as a member on Menudo, and the "facts" in this article contradict those of Draco Rosa. Hoax? -- Whpq (talk) 19:26, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Can't connect to "Behind the Music", either. Oh, and the article was created on April 1, 2009. --j⚛e decker^talk 19:38, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Ah yes, Tommy Leaman, also known as "Big Tuna Fish" (Pescadotuna Grande). Robi Rosa is real and was part of Menudo, but I have to say our Mr. Leaman appears to be a hoax. --Jezebel'sPonyo^{bons mots} 19:47, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a hoax. Changed his name on the day he was born? I don't think so... Alzarian16 (talk) 20:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

• Nice find, this is absolutely a hoax. The "fake band member" hoax seems to be a recurring theme, this has to be the 3rd or 4th one I've seen in the last year. In July 2009 someone added an edit "does this guy really exist?"[2]. In October 2009 someone added "This is definitely not real. Whoever this person is is disrespecting Menudo and there fans."[3]. Both were undone by WikHead to "take it to the talk page". I also love the quote section that Whpq removed, "To my love...chasing the antidote to desire through her reclusive country."--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 20:30, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
• Tommy's bio only costs $40 on amazon![4]--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 20:33, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Cool. I'll chip in...<rifles around in jacket pocket>...a Canadian nickel and an HMV Mumford & Sons receipt. --Jezebel'sPonyo^{bons mots} 20:38, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

• Good catch, it has been G3'd. Another One Bites the Dust. J04n(talk page) 20:36, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

• Thanks everybody for the assistance. -- Whpq (talk) 23:08, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

James Edward Campbell‎

I haven't much experience with evaluating notability based on academic citations, could someone who does take a quick peek at James Edward Campbell‎ and kill the notability tag I stuck there if his papers/cite rates rise to the level of WP:ACADEMIC #1. Hints on the right sorts of metrics for evaluating this stuff would be helpful. Thanks! --j⚛e decker^talk 00:51, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

What next?

I'm tempted to suggest March 2009 (about 400) or popping up for a lark to knock off April 2010 (only about 250 entries) -- but really, it's all good. Last I looked there were only two left, so .... what do folks want to do next? --j⚛e decker^talk 22:10, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

I think it would be good to continue with 2009, and though Jan 2009 is quite big, at current rates of progress I think we could clear it by Wikipedia's tenth birthday - which would mean the queue was below two years by the birthday. April 2009 is much smaller, but I recently project tagged a lot of it, and I'm pretty sure that has been attracting extra attention from the projects. So if we leave it another few weeks it may well shrink faster than the average month. So my vote is for Jan 2009. ϢereSpielChequers 23:49, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

I'll make a suggestion, although it probably has a lot less thought than ϢereSpielChequers put into it... The last few have been in the 300-500 range. Let's grab a 1,000+ monster like: July 2009.... or the grand-daddy of them all ....gulp.... August 2009. TiMike (talk) 01:32, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

• Whoa, just saw that April '09 is already finished. I am up for anything next, but agree we should still with 2009 for now, and Jan 2009 is good with me. I will likely be scarce over the next week, so anyone should be free to get it up if that sounds ok.--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 03:47, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
  • I like WSC's rationale for January 09, I'll will be happy to try and get that going. --j⚛e decker^talk 03:51, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm good with Jan 09.. lets do it up TiMike (talk) 03:55, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

It's live  :) --j⚛e decker^talk 04:08, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

LOL, you guys are devouring them!--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 04:11, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

K. Vardachari Thiruvengadam

One of the prods from April 2009, K. Vardachari Thiruvengadam was just contested. Should probably go to AfD but I haven't the time to fully look at it at the moment. J04n(talk page) 23:34, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Chinese politicians

Just done a batch of Chinese politicians (various dates) using China Vitae. Hopefully that will make things easier in the coming months. Just a small group of Taiwanese, Macau and Hong Kong pols left unreferenced in the Chinese politician category.--Plad2 (talk) 09:57, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Nicely done! --j⚛e decker^talk 17:25, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Another contested prod from April 2009

Mohamed Al-Amin Mohamed Al-Hadi was contested on the grounds that sources were found under the spelling 'Muhammad al Amin Muhammad al Hadi'. The sources I found are both behind paywalls. Anyone have a better way for identifying Somali parliament members? J04n(talk page) 12:34, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Congratulations on finding a source. That one defeated me.--Plad2 (talk) 12:48, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Found a source but I would like to make a related comment on prods. This particular prod could have also been removed solely by the fact that the subject is a member of Somali Parliament per WP:POLITICIAN. There is a much lower threshold to remove a prod than for an AfD discussion to be closed as Keep, plus if there are sources out there, they are much more likely to be found as a result of an AfD discussion. There are no hard rules (that I'm aware of) as to what goes to prod and what goes to AfD but my rule of thumb when going through the BLPs is; even if this article was fully sourced it would still not meet any notability requirements...then I prod it. J04n(talk page) 13:00, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

I agree. Following the earlier discussion on this subject, I now go straight to AfD if the article asserts notability, even if I can't source it. Outcome is variable but at least it provides an opportunity for other eyes to dig out a source I've been unable to find myself - especially if the name is open to a variety of different spellings. I also try to alert relevant Projects to the problem before going down the deletion route.--Plad2 (talk) 22:48, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

It amuses me to get to use our trophy cabinet in a discussion

It might amuse you, too. See here, [5], from talk/UBLP, on the myth that nobody is willing to take on, say, third-world beauty pageant winner sourcing. --j⚛e decker^talk 21:58, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Good point, well made. While on the subject of trophies, I'm detecting a Chinese theme to this month which might suggest a theme for the trophy when we get there.--Plad2 (talk) 22:40, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Indeed! --j⚛e decker^talk 22:51, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

coming right up ϢereSpielChequers 23:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Nice, WSC! Got to earn it first, though...--Plad2 (talk) 23:10, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Back to work for me, that's one shiny trophy. I got distracted, well, we all know how "insignficant" and "difficult" all these unsourced BLPs are? Like this this former head of Toyota? --j⚛e decker^talk 01:25, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Another April 2009 prod has been contested

We'll have to take another look at Christodoulos Sabbatos. J04n(talk page) 15:25, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

I've sent to AfD, as the original PROD'der (I think.) --j⚛e decker^talk 17:14, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

I think I found the key to verifying Sabbatos. It would have been easier if the article had had the guys first name correct. --j⚛e decker^talk 05:41, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

And another one is back, Demetrios Tzerpos. This was an undeletion request from the same editor who contested the above PROD, I'd deleted the article when the original PROD on it took effect, but haven't sent it to AfD yet, I'll be away from keyboard all of today, and it looks like there *might* be a source or two for this guy in Gweb, or not. Both might also find sourcing in Greek, I've attempted to engage the editor to provide sources, we'll see. Anyway, feel free to source this one or send it AfDward as appropriate. --j⚛e decker^talk 17:14, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Demetrios Tzerpos is now at AfD. J04n(talk page) 20:52, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Can we do this by Christmas Day?

Quite astonishly, we've been tracking at more than 50 articles per day. Great work on this month... but can the remaining 156 be done by Christmas? (I'll even pay the end of Christmas Day in the -12 timezone!)

Almost had a wow moment then... whilst researching sources for Carole Tongue, I found this blog interview Paul Coletti: Interview with Carole Tongue... not suitable as a reliable source, but that name looked familiar... Paul Coletti WAS another UBLP from this month... but then I read this on his FAQ: Sigh. I’m a gonna say this only once. I am not Paul Coletti the famous viola player. That would have been cool having two non-related UBLPs intersect like that. Oh well, back to the politicians. The-Pope (talk) 16:17, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Well we have had the total drop below 17,000 and I'm hoping we might see that drop to 16,000 by the end of the year and I'm confident we can get to 15,000 by our tenth birthday. That's a staggering rate of progress. I've been going through March 2009 adding project tags and prodding one or two, there's a massive dose of Belgium and entire squads of El Salvadorean footballers. We could move there next if people fancy that fare, but at current rates of progress I think we could pick on either Jan or Feb 2009 and get that fixed by the tenth birthday. ϢereSpielChequers 16:28, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

16,000 by end of year, Check. Errr, Cheque.  ;-) --j⚛e decker^talk 21:07, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Things are going fast, at this rate we could possible see things drop below 14,000 by mid Jan. I'm guessing that this is quite a bit more than the month gang, the reference a random article now button is attracting a lot of help, and some projects may be active, for example User:Lear's Fool just cleared the Catholicism backlog. ϢereSpielChequers 20:06, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Could be, lot of unknowns, of course. I'm still hopeful to see the backlog effectively cleared in my lifetime, and I mostly think it's a matter of making sure there are enough eyes on it. I don't know how long the uptick on "press the red button, ref a random article" will last, but I'm glad for the boost in any case--and maybe, just maybe, some editors will get more in the habit as time goes on. I think we're still at a time, too, where the effects of BLPPROD are still being phased in, I'd bet if you take the most recent month of tagged unsourced BLPs that there's a bunch of pre-BLPPROD articles in there, which says to me that, say, a year from now, we'll have even smaller "incoming months" in the backlog. We'll see, but there sure seem to be a lot of reasons for optimism, as far as I'm concerned! --j⚛e decker^talk 22:02, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

The scariest thing for me is that everytime EPBR123 or someone does a run on old UBLPs that either are tagged as unref, rather than BLPunref, or not tagged at all, they find a few hundred, and rarely get past D in the alphabetical order! I think the new monthly count excluding BLPPRODs will be 400-600 for a long time... but we can handle that many. I'll try to update my by-topic list soon, so we can see what else has been targeted. We should probably have a trophy room for WikiProjects that have successfully cleared their backlogs at WP:URBLP too! I'll try to do a bit of an analysis on the last week's surge too, to see how many people have really been invovled - is it a big jump of people doing 3-5 or is it the 20-30 regulars doing 50-100?The-Pope (talk) 02:27, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Continue to be scared--I just looked at the top 10 entries within "G" in the latest month. 7 predate the BLPPROD deadline. (Of the remaining 3, one is awaiting the expiration of its BLPPROD, not sure if the other two ever had it, I didn't dig.) So, there's very probably a whole mess of unsourced BLPs still out there that haven't been marked as unsourced BLPs. On the other hand, there's something positive about seeing how many of the unsourced ones are from 2004, 2005, and 2006--this makes me think that we're actually getting people to include sources in BLPs. --j⚛e decker^talk 03:23, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

I notice that Yobot is finding some old bios which were previously tagged just as "unreferenced" and replacing that with BLPunreferenced" which explains the occasional pop-up in the months we had thought were clear. No bad thing, of course, just an observation that there are indeed still pockets of UBLPs out there which haven't surfaced yet.--Plad2 (talk) 08:49, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

I've been trawling through the December 2010 ones, many, perhaps a majority were at least partially sourced and wrongly tagged. I haven't gone through the earlier 2010 months in the same detail but I suspect we will find a lot of incorrect tags there as well. That said there are a lot of new BLPs lurking in the Category:Uncategorized pages backlog - currently >7k including hundreds of BLPs. ϢereSpielChequers 14:50, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

And, just to pick up from earlier, 15K by the tenth birthday, check. 14K is probably too much to hope for, but wow! I'd noticed, too, Yobot's contributions, and I think that's great. In principle I'd like to see unref'd BLPs marked relatively quickly as such (balanced only against BITE), but I do realize that big increases in the visible backlog count are sometimes, pragmatically, counterproductive. --j⚛e decker^talk 21:49, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Philippine Basketball players

I've seen a query on an article I was sourcing as to whether PBA-online (which describes itself as a fansite) and Eurobasket.com can count as RS. I've searched WP:RSN and drawn a blank. I can ask there, of course, but I thought best to check here first as this group is more likely to have addressed the question recently. WikiProjectBasketball doesn't have any guidance that I can see. I could ask there as well. We have PBA-online listed on our own Resources page so the assumption should be that these are RS. But is that the case?. Thoughts anyone?--Plad2 (talk) 09:30, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

I've posed the question at WikiProject Basketball--Plad2 (talk) 07:51, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

I posted a similar question at the Tambayan Philippines page earlier this month, but didn't generate much discussion. I don't know enough about the PBA to judge PBA-online, but the Eurobasket family (which would include Asia-Basket) should be considered reliable. (See here.) The problem is that you have to pay. Zagalejo^^^ 18:58, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I've added some useful Philippine news (sports sections) which helped solve my latest sourcing problem for a Philippino Basketball player to the Resources page.--Plad2 (talk) 10:06, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

700 in one day

• 2011-01-02 00:03 UTC|14559
• 2011-01-03 00:04 UTC|13839

It's over all months. I'm kinda delighted with that. On further investigation I'm not so sure. iMDb changes, discussion here. Regards, SunCreator ^(talk) 03:37, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Ugh. --j⚛e decker^talk 04:28, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

If the individuals who are treating IMDB as a RS and changing the unreferenced tags to BLP sources could be persuaded to put their time and energy into sourcing the articles properly, the total would reduce more slowly but it would save time in the long-run.--Plad2 (talk) 08:12, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Subcat Unreferenced BLP rescue?

Has anyone considered subcategorizing this category by interested Wikiproject? For example, an "Unreferenced Japanese BLP" category? Someone with skills in Japanese and an interest would be able to do a lot more than I in cleaning such articles up. Likewise for videos games and I imagine many other? Or maybe a report of wikiproject tags in the talk page of Unreferenced BLPs? Basically, provide possibly interested parties with a tool to find Unreferenced BLP articles they can easily and/or enthusiastically help with. --John (User:Jwy/talk) 07:06, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi! Most of those lists are being rebuilt daily in the lists given here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons/WikiProjects, (you'll have to look down the page a tiny bit, but not far, but you can find WikiProject Japan at [6] under Regional on that page, etc.) and it's pretty easy to build your own lists, too, based not on projects but cats, using CatScan, e.g., [7] ... do either of help? --j⚛e decker^talk 07:17, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

That's exactly what I was asking about. I presume projects that don't show up don't have any Unreferenced BLPs? Projects I am interested in don't appear (Beatles, for example). And I presume projects with entries there are aware of their existence? Thanks! --John (User:Jwy/talk) 07:22, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

And note to self: RTFP(age). I see its on the project page. . . --John (User:Jwy/talk) 07:25, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Don't worry too much about RTFP, there's a lot of stuff (I mean, yes, go read it, sure), but don't fret about missing something in it, there's a lot of information. Do catch the link at the bottom of our project page with the resources page, though, that's been very useful to me at times--if I'd just had the links how to easily deal with Go players, Gaelic hurlers, and Chinese politicians from the start I'd've been way ahead. :-)

Back to your question, though--I don't see WikiProject THe Beatles in those lists (quickly looking), but I did find it with Google. It's quite possible some projects got missed, and I know that there are a number of dormant wikiprojects on WIkipedia as well, there's certainly no guarantee that each project will "take care of it's own". In the random list, wikiprojects with 0 UBLPs are still listed, though, I've seen that, and I'd expect that's the case elsewhere in those lists. --j⚛e decker^talk 07:35, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

PS: I don't think that bottom big table is being updated, but the links through (the group of about six links above the table, and the data in it) do get updated. --j⚛e decker^talk 07:48, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

I understand that if you want a Wikiproject to appear on the Dashbot lists, you need to register it at User:DASHBot/Wikiprojects/Instructions. Hallucegenia (talk) 08:15, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

I recently added Ancient Egypt We've probably got most of the projects that have significant numbers of uBLPs, partly by going through a list of articles that hadn't been included in the dashbot lists and checking the talkpages for projects. Of course we may have missed projects that aren't so obvious and haven't been actively tagging uBLPs. I'm not sure if Country music has a wikiproject. As for notifying the projects that these lists exist - I think The-Pope has done the occasional bot message to the projects, so I assume when I find another project they will pick up on it eventually. ϢereSpielChequers 09:00, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

There may be some missed projects, but they wouldn't cover many UBLPs. Before the latest surge, the remaining articles were split about 15-25% in each of 4 cats: Sport, Politicians, Entertainment, Music and then 10-15% in each of "Other" (which covered science, academia, religion etc) and "regional projects only". The sports and politicians were fairly well allocated to specific sports or regions, the entertainment had quite a few that were just in the a&e-work-group and likewise the "other group" had quite a few in just the s&a-work-group. The region only ones was probably the other main area where more allocation into more specific projects could be done. From memory (don't have the spreadsheet handy) of the 730 odd projects that are being tracked, almost 200 are empty, another 200 have under 10 and only 100 or so have (>50) lists. Most of the ones with >50 articles have been notified at some time, but some don't seem to respond positively at all - I notified classical music the other day and have had virtually zero response or UBLP removal. The-Pope (talk) 13:04, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Interesting. For yucks I went (a few days back) and closed out three of the wikiprojects that had a single article left. (Interestingly, in each of the three cases the last article was a copyvio, wacky.) It's a pity some of the WP's aren't' willing and/or able to take on their backlogs, but we all have time constraints, I suppose, but I'd sure love to see some help from WP:Japan right now, or at least Japanese-speaking editors. (Which reminds me--I seem to recall that there's a template tag advertising for the help of a subject-matter expert, is there a similar template that might be valuable in attracting the attention of an editor with skills in a particular language? --j⚛e decker^talk 16:02, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

We could try adding Template:Expand Japanese to a sub-page, with a bit of explanation. Or approach any of Category:Translators ja-en directly. Hallucegenia (talk) 21:09, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

I've done the "get them to 0" task a couple of times too! I'll try to update the full Wikipedia:WikiProject Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons/WikiProjects table soon, but a useful way to see what is left for each project at the moment is to use the contributions list. Now that we are getting down to smaller numbers, and have a very good feeling on what is easy (Olympians/NFL players/most politicians) and what is hard (Arabic/Thai/Japanese), then going back to those projects can be done in a more directed way - not just a generic bulk mailout.The-Pope (talk) 16:32, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

I think of the project tagging as a "long game" I've mentioned it unsubtly and very unsubtly in various venues including signpost, and every now and then someone dives in and clears Spain, Worcestershire, Catholicism etc. So I think that for a proportion of the articles that I've project tagged it makes a difference. Also I know that some projects such as LGBT and Croatia run an eye over their uBLPs and at least get the hoaxes and non-notables deleted, and for my money that is more important than referencing the genuine uncontentious ones. I think we could get a big uBLP drive from the projects if we could get Jimmy to make the request - in fact if someone else would be able to do the botting of it I'll ask him if he'd put his name to the message. ϢereSpielChequers 17:57, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Side contest

I think we could run a side contest on most unlikely BLP. Does anyone think they can crack this one? ϢereSpielChequers 17:57, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Not in that league, but certainly a man of an unlikely number of talents: He is a guitar player and engineer. He is a mathematician, an inventor, a practising polytechnic engineer, lecturer and the author of several scientific papers. This is also, near as I can tell, Wikipedia's *largest* URBLP. --j⚛e decker^talk 00:01, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

(Compare and contrast the shortest.) --j⚛e decker^talk 08:03, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

OK howabout Mabuasehube Game Reserve? ϢereSpielChequers 10:26, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

That is just weird. ZFP57 is in living people, so I guess that may have been the thinking - if you were to assume of heap of good faith.The-Pope (talk) 11:11, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Jan 2009 almost finished. What next?

Apart from Tharani Rao (which I can't source and needs a decision), I think we're done with January 2009. Yasuhiko Imai could do with another look. If an other editor wants to revert my source and send it to AfD, that's OK by me - I'm not sure how stunt actors working primarily in non-english TV series can meet en.Wikipedia's GNG since they are rarely the subject of any independent coverage. As to a theme: for me, the month started with a majority of Chinese bios and ended with far more Japanese. Lots of voice actors and anime illustrators. So what next? Just straight on to the 503 in February 2009?--Plad2 (talk) 09:06, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Well done all to get it done by the 10 year anniversary. Outstanding effort. As for next, I think an easier one, March 2009, only 299 articles, would be better, as the oldest surviving month normally attracts quite a few "drive-by" editors, unrelated to this project, whereas the middle months don't get much of a viewing. Then maybe for February we tackle one of the elephants in the room... June or August 2009 with their 1455/1786 totals! The-Pope (talk) 11:22, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

• March 2009 looks good to me. But I'm taking non-Asian BLPs first!!--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 01:01, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

March 2009 is fine by me. Just sorted two from "H".--Plad2 (talk) 07:19, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

The remainders from January 2009

Here are the remaining ones from January 2009 minus the ones that have been prodded:

Ram Chet Chaudhary nicely done J04n(talk page) 18:38, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks!!! --j⚛e decker^talk 22:18, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Huang Hong --j⚛e decker^talk 18:59, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Yūsaku Igarashi

1. Yasuhiko Imai

   Satoko Inoue

   Kurumi Inui

   Masanori Ito (music critic)

   Kim Jin-tae

   Lam Joi-Shan Prodded.--Plad2 (talk) 22:45, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

   Syed Ehtisham Ahmed Nadvi

   Jan Nagel J04n(talk page) 19:49, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

   Vasantrao Arjun Naik at AfD--Plad2 (talk) 21:20, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

   Tom Newman (musician, producer) prodded J04n(talk page) 19:49, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

   Shunzo Ono --j⚛e decker^talk 07:12, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

   Tsutomu Ōhashi

   Akihiro Ōtani

   Shashi Bhushan Sahai

   Yūya Sasagiri Now at AfD.--Plad2 (talk) 21:19, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

   Tadashi Suetsugi posted a request for help at WikiProject Engineering. If they can't help, it'll go to AfD.--Plad2 (talk) 22:19, 12 January 2011 (UTC) Being fixed as I write. refs added and tag will come off. Hooray!--Plad2 (talk) 08:01, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

   Takajin

   Takashi Aoyagi

   Yuki Takita

   Tam Yuk Ying

   Romeo Tanaka

   Ryōichi Tanaka

   Shinobu Tanno

   Tharani Rao Ugh! This one needs another pair of eyes on it. My notes so far are on the talk page. I'm giving up for tonight--Plad2 (talk) 22:37, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

   Prodded... surely co-directors aren't notable. I guess I get just as annoyed about every "I worked on a film once" article as some get about a "I once played sport at a high level" article. It's just a job! The-Pope (talk) 11:38, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

   Carman M. Tsang PROD --Plad2 (talk) 20:53, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

   Jin Yamanoi

   Yeo Min Jeong

   Shōji Yonemura

The following at are AfD, many of which have had little to no discussion yet:

1. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hiroshi Hara (director)
2. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shingo Kobayashi AfD closed as "no consensus" but still unreferenced.--Plad2 (talk) 08:01, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
3. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lin Liheng; has been relisted twice, some more opinions would help Closed with a redirect.--Plad2 (talk) 09:34, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
4. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kazuaki Ogikubo
5. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Toshio Sakurai
6. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fereshta Samah - may have found some Persian sources here. --j⚛e decker^talk 22:19, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
7. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kongsak Santaweesook
8. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yūya Sasagiri just listed
9. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vasantrao Arjun Naik just listed --Plad2 (talk) 21:20, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

• Coming back from a little break on sourcing duties here, oh boy! People like Tsutomu Ōhashi seem like they should be notable but I can find nothing of real use!--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 03:26, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Shingo Kobayashi AfD closed but still unreferenced - what now?

So how does one deal with this one? This is the first time I've seen an AfD closed as no consensus but left as an UBLP. None of the opposers could provide an RS. I know I have done every I can to find a single RS and come up blank. Comment at WikiProject Anime and Manga indicated a lack of notability (and they are more knowledgeable than I). So do we nominate for a 2nd AfD?--Plad2 (talk) 08:00, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

In retrospect I took the wrong tact in my argument, I should have argued the reliability of the source not the policy. Plad, since you did question the reliability of the source you can bring it up to the closing admin and ask for reconsideration, then if necessary Deletion review. The fact that your contention wasn't countered isn't a bad argument. J04n(talk page) 10:56, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Crazy. I see that someone has now A7'd it. That won't fly. Do you think that it is time to push for a "BLPPROD" to automatically apply if any UBLP is closed as no-consensus, or keep, for that matter? Some have been pushing for "delete as default" for all BLPs, but I think that is too harsh. The only reason BLPPROD hasn't been applied backwards is because we realise that standards have changed, and it wouldn't be fair to apply it to hundreds of articles. In this case, there is no doubt that the article has been reviewed in detail by a lot of people, but regardless of the arguements over notability, if an acceptable, reliable source can't be found within 10 days of the AFD being closed, it should be deleted. Sound fair? Which board should it be proposed on? The-Pope (talk) 15:12, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

The A7 is clearly inappropriate. I've removed it. As for the forum for discussion, perhaps deletion review might be the best place to start as J04n has suggested. - Whpq (talk) 15:27, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

The AFD discussion got sidetracked into issues of whether the person is non-notable or not - WP:ARTIST, that is irrelevant, as even a notable WP:BLP which is completely without reliable sources should be deleted eventually. The issue is that it has no reliable sources and the long process of finding them has been exhausted and AFD would be the last resort before deletion. I can't see 'deletion review' getting anywhere(although don't let me put anyone off who thinks it's worth a try), the closing admin summed up the situation in an approapriate way. The link at animenewsnetwork.com was given and no one pointed out it was not a reliable source, leaving the impression that it might of been. Likewise no one stated that notability was irrelevant. In fact reading the AFD you would think WP:ARTIST is the deciding factor.

My suggestion is to do an AFD again, this time with a WP:BLP focus, specifically WP:BLPDELETE and some of the infamous and contentious ArbCom ruling statements, because unfortunately BLPDELETE isn't that clear. Also give an explanation of the amount of exhausted research checking for a reliable source that multiple editors have done. Certainly keep to the BLP policy and not the WP:BIO guideline. Regards, SunCreator ^(talk) 15:36, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

I'll try to find a source tonight or tomorrow if you give me a chance. One possible way it could be sourced is to view the credits of one of the works he worked on, and then cite that as the source. I think the credits of a film or TV show would be considered a reliable source for who worked on it. Calathan (talk) 15:50, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, yeah, in terms of verification that's reasonable IMHO. --j⚛e decker^talk 15:59, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm tempted to wonder what would happen if we left it visibly unreferenced for a few months, it'd "stick out like a sore thumb". --j⚛e decker^talk 15:59, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

I like the sore thumb approach, but I'm afraid it will just get changed to refimprove because of the external link. The issue of the site being reliable can be settled at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard. I still feel strongly that someone only listed in credits no matter how reliable the credits are doesn't belong on Wikipedia but I shouldn't have let that become my only line of reasoning. It's a shame, it is such a poor article and there is nothing out there that can improve it. J04n(talk page) 16:18, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

FYI take a peak at Sanela Sijerčić. J04n(talk page) 16:25, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

• That one does have sources we can use to some extent which I cited in the AfD, so we won't have a recreation of this [[Shingo Kobayashi debacle.--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 16:48, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

OK. Just so I'm clear on this: Calathan's going to have another look for an RS. If nothing is turned up, I could raise with closing admin as the point about the lack of RS appears to have been missed, but it seems to me that perhaps going straight into a second AfD might be the more effective route - concentrating on the "unsourced" point and emphasising the amount of effort which has gone into trying to find one. BTW I see the editor who tagged it for A7 has asked for more help at Wikiproject Anime & Manga.

That seems to sum it up, I also see that the closing admin was just asked to take a second look at another discussion that he recently closed (if you take that route, try to be a bit more tactful). Either strategy would be fine, politely asking the closing admin if he took your point as to the reliability of the source into account would be a great way to open the dialog. J04n(talk page) 21:43, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I verified that his name does appear in the credits for Animation Runner Kuromi epsidoe 1. I chose that episode only because I knew it was available streaming legally for free from Anime News Network (here, if anyone is interested). He was listed only in Japanese, but I was able to use Google Translate to determine that he is listed under "photography help" and "Ace Creation", which seems to match what is currently in the article. His name appeared at about 36:26 in the episode. I've tried to add that to the article as a reference, but I'm not sure what the correct style is for citing an episode. Someone might want to clean up the reference so that it is in an accepted style and lists any information I left out. Also, I want to say that I'm not convinced that anything he did is a significant role in creating any of the works that he was involved in, and I personally think that he probably would fail WP:CREATIVE even if reliable sources were found to verify everything he did. For now though hopefully the one reference to the credits that I added will at least keep him off the list of unsourced BLPs. Calathan (talk) 04:01, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Well done and thank you! I think I will ask the closing admin (politely) about his rationale as it will help me frame arguments in the future. But I think that we've all spent more time on this one than it really deserves. It occurs to me that it might be worth preserving the AfD discussion and this one somewhere as an illustration for the next time this sort of question comes up. Perhaps we could start a "Library of interesting cases" page.--Plad2 (talk) 07:32, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Calathan: Thank you. While I was unfamiliar with the usual format for citing programs, I did stumble across the "cite episode" template and have taken a hack at applying it to the article, please revert/modify as you see fit! --j⚛e decker^talk 19:56, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

March 2009 Theme

Anybody else coming across Fiji politicians? -- Whpq (talk) 16:57, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, sourced at least three myself, all chiefs. --j⚛e decker^talk 01:37, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

This is the best I've come up with for a "trophy": File:Independence Medal (Fiji) ribbon.png --j⚛e decker^talk 19:24, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

It looks kind of bland. Considering it was primarily politicians, what about File:Fiji-Parliament 2000.JPG? -- Whpq (talk) 19:37, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Indeed, I like your idea better.  :) --j⚛e decker^talk 19:39, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Come to think of it, I actually prefer File:Fiji Parliament House1.jpg as an image of the Fiji Parliament. -- Whpq (talk) 19:41, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

What month next? 13 left in March 09 (not counting 18 at deletion)

Ideas, preferences? Really, it's all good by me. --j⚛e decker^talk 19:20, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

• May 2009? I'm inclined to leave Feb 09 out there for random people to continue to whittle down.--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 22:32, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

  Agree the second oldest month seems the best way to go. J04n(talk page) 00:25, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

  Indeed! --j⚛e decker^talk 00:32, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

  March is still alive -minu survived AfD. J04n(talk page) 01:00, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

  The reference tag simply needs to be updated for -minu. It contains a link to the official website as a primary source and ISBN numbers for verification of the bibliography listed. --Jezebel'sPonyo^{bons mots} 01:27, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

  I've taken a knife to the unsourceable info there.--j⚛e decker^talk 02:24, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

  I'll be very happy when -minu is gone - caused me lots of problems cutting and pasting his name in Excel - the "-" made excel think that it was a formula, not just text and I'd get a #NAME error! The-Pope (talk) 03:33, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Announcing the 2003 Vintage

If anyone is curious what the oldest (in terms of creation, rather than tagging date) URBLPs look like, I made a little list of the twenty or so that date from 2003 here using CatScan. (None date from earlier.) Enjoy! No warranty express or implied.  :) --j⚛e decker^{talk to me} 03:48, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

John Litz

I think John Litz may be a hoax (from 2006!). No GNews hits, nothing in local paper, nothing at Tennessee State Legislature. I've run out of time to deal with it this morning. Don't want to rush a PROD/AfD in case I've missed something. Another pair of eyes would be helpful.--Plad2 (talk) 07:20, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Got it, I had better luck with the Gnews query "john litz" hamblin, once I started spelling litz right, at least! --j⚛e decker^{talk to me} 07:33, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Glad I paused and asked for help.--Plad2 (talk) 09:11, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

May 2009 all done...

It's probably a good idea to keep an eye on the prods and weigh in on the AfDs but otherwise all done. Are we ready to tackle June 2009?

It's a biggie but we're going to have to tackle it sometime, so I guess now is good.--Plad2 (talk) 21:15, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Should it be broken down somehow, or just dive in? --Jezebel'sPonyo^{bons mots} 21:16, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Could target first 400 (A-J) perhaps? And/or see whether there are some bigger groups by themes, like the hurlers.--Plad2 (talk) 21:33, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

I definitely like the idea of going through segments at first, a few to several letters or something, that'd make the finish line look closer.  ;-) --j⚛e decker^{talk to me} 21:35, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Got 29 Hurlers from June 2009 listed here in case anyone wants to bash through those.--Plad2 (talk) 21:41, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Psst, Joe, do you still have Hogan Stand bookmarked? --Jezebel'sPonyo^{bons mots} 22:07, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Bookmarked, but my fingers know how to type that faster than my own name! --j⚛e decker^{talk to me} 22:25, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Is May 2009 really completely done though? Sander van Heeswijk is still not listed for deletion of any kind. Cheers Tooga - BØRK! 21:56, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

It's all done now. J04n(talk page) 22:21, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

• Anything is good with me. June 09 is quite large (1296) though I guess it has to come sometime!--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 02:14, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

12 Mexican actors anyone? No, don't worry, I'm happy to do those. I'm amusing myself by picking an article from A-J and seeing how many other UBLPS from June 2009 are in the same category (using CatScan). It gives one a manageable quantity to deal with in one session and a sense of achievement when you get to the bottom of the list. 6 Russian politicians (last night) and 3 American poets (this morning) are no longer on the list.--Plad2 (talk) 08:06, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

I'll try to get a breakdown on what to expect later today, but I think that this was one of the "erik9bot" auto tagged months, so you might find a few more false positives than normal, as it wasn't completely checked by a human. A quick check - there are about 290 politicians, 170 musicians, 115 actors, 209 writers, 218 sportspeople and 150 academics. Of course some are in multiple cats, and some may be undercategorised. Regionally, there are over a 100 Canadians, 15-50 each of Chinese, Japanese, Irish and Indians, but not surprisingly the majority are American (417) or British (270). So, like normal, a fairly wide range of possible areas to work on.The-Pope (talk) 10:09, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Just took out this month's portion (eight or nine) of unsourced Eurovision participants. --j⚛e decker^{talk to me} 01:33, 13 February 2011 (UTC)