Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2019 December 11

Welcome to the Wikipedia Miscellaneous Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is a transcluded archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

December 11

Where is this?

My Dad and I think he took this picture when we flew from London to Montreal in 1970. We have always understood it to have been our first glimpse of Canada and we'd like to pinpoint the location. Is it somewhere on the Labrador coast? Does the geomorphology fit? If it was from earlier in the flight could it be Greenland? Iceland doesn't seem to have any shoreline like that. Dad thinks he would have used a 50 mm or a 135 mm lens, which would make the horizontal scale about three or eight kilometres across (from 35,000 feet and if the camera were pointing straight down, which it wouldn't have been). We would really like to know where this was. Hayttom (talk) 10:03, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

CambridgeBayWeather may be able to help if someone else doesn't figure it out first. MarnetteD|Talk 10:35, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

With all due respect, why would he? He lives about 3,000 kilometres from the Atlantic ocean. Hayttom (talk) 11:43, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

@Hayttom: IMVHO, when compared to Google Maps, it looks a very little bit like the area to the North from Loks Land Island – see the Google Maps. --CiaPan (talk) 11:51, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

@CiaPan, indeed it does look like a similar landscape, thanks! But that's way farther north than a normal great circle route from London to Montreal, though of course planes' courses vary. Hayttom (talk) 12:14, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

@Hayttom: Fifty years ago airplanes were smaller, slower and not that powerful as nowadays. I suppose pilots were taking routes more to north, so that they were much closer to some land (Iceland and Greenland) than today for most of the journey time. --CiaPan (talk) 13:36, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

P.S. Writing the @ mark with a user's name does not generate a notification. If you want to 'ping' someone you need to put a link to that user's page (and you need to do this in the same edit, in which you add your automated signature, i.e. four tildes: ~~~~). Such link can be generated with the {{Reply to}} template (or any of its redirects, like {{Ping}} or {{Re}}). For more info please see WP:PING. --CiaPan (talk) 13:36, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

(ec)No I don't know where that is but earlier a friend posted a screenshot on Facebook of the great circle route his wife was taking to get from San Francisco to London. No link because it's FB and a copyright violation. The aircraft crossed (only just) the northern tip of Labrador and then across southern Greenland. I wrote this up and then thought to Google montreal to london great circle route. One hit I got was this which crosses the southern tip of Labrador. One thing that may be important is the date of the flight. At one time flights had to refuel and some stopped in Gander, Newfoundland and Labrador but it might be a bit far south as it's on the New York route, so Narsarsuaq Airport may have been a stopover. I don't think Nuuk Airport as it may be too new. Hope that helps a bit. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 13:45, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

If it's just a diagram of a route it might not meet the threshold of originality for copyright (at least in the U.S., which is what matters for Wikimedia projects). --47.146.63.87 (talk) 19:45, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

I just thought if the aircraft refuelled at Keflavík International Airport then the ongoing route would be further north. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 13:49, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

It was a BOAC Boeing 707 and this was April 23, 1970. We did not stop anywhere en route. Hayttom (talk) 13:58, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Kind of a long shot, but I wonder if BOAC has archives of its standard flight paths from that far back? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:19, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Or maybe British Airways... I've been searching for geographic pattern recognition. It seems to be only at the research stage now, but maybe Google will have it ready next week. Hayttom (talk) 16:31, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Not in 1970. BOAC wouldn't have merged with BEA until 1972, and the new British Airways branding for the new company didn't take affect until 1974. --Jayron32 20:42, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Do you remember which side of the plane you were sitting on? --142.112.159.101 (talk) 18:35, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Just a wild shot, but it looks a bit like some of the coast line around William's Harbour, on the Labrador coast. [1] This would be assuming that the top of the picture corresponds to the West (or more precisely, the northwest), which would be the case if the plane was travelling in a general southerly direction and the picture was taken out of the right side windows. However, if you zoom in on the map I've linked, you'll see that that part of the coast is chock full of little inlets that look somewhat like the picture, so I'm not sure if there's a way to pinpoint the location exactly. And I don't know how much coastal erosion there is in that area, as it may have affected the shape of the coastline over 40 years. Xuxl (talk) 18:48, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Potentially useful: North Atlantic Tracks. --47.146.63.87 (talk) 19:45, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

What month was it? Might be able to find out how far north the ice was that year?—eric 23:00, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

April 23, 1970, according to Hayttom. ---Sluzzelin talk 23:05, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Oops, missed that, thanks. this is no fun need ARC/INFO.—eric 23:25, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

They have charts, just didn't see them: Ice Conditions for 22 April 1970. Interpreting Canadian Ice Charts (1967-1981).—eric 00:07, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

So fast ice, somewhere north of Emily Harbour?—eric 00:30, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Can't find anything for the North Atlantic, but here's 200mb windspeed for 12Z over North America. CambridgeBayWeather look like the might go that far north?—eric 16:03, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Sure. We get some aircraft on the great circle route. The only ones I talked to were going to or from Asia. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 08:20, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

The landscape in the picture does not look like a glaciated coast, which would have many islands and lakes and a striated appearance, and straight edged glacially carved fjords. Instead it looks to be shaped by water erosion. Also it is a submergent coast where water level has risen and flooded a valley. Perhaps it is even a dam. The darker areas are probably forested. More of the iamge can be seen here: https://hwtrblog.files.wordpress.com/2019/12/img_20170122_0044.jpg I don't think this is Labrador or anywhere north of there as everything there is glaciated. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 04:40, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Could there not be a large proportion of ice in the photo?—eric 15:43, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

TV Mirror Image

When facing another person, if they lift their right arm, this will be on your left, but if you face a mirror and you lift your right arm, the image seen will lift its arm on your right had side, mirror image. On television is this a mirror image? Thanks. Anton. 81.131.40.58 (talk) 10:46, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

No, it's the "mirror's eye view". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:22, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

The OP's illusory image lifts its illusory right arm. Television and ordinary photographs do not reverse left-to-right as mirror images do. See Much ado about mirrors michael and Mirror image. DroneB (talk) 11:29, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Also, mirror images don’t really reverse left and right, they reverse back and front. Cheers ⌘ _hugarheimur 18:56, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

• "Selfies" show us as we appear in a mirror, not the way we appear to others. Most people don't seem to realise this. In fact, there's not even any mention of it in our article, which leads me to wonder whether I'm hopelessly out of touch with cutting-edge technology, as usual. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 19:06, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Are you saying the guy in File:Lueg im SWR1 Studio.jpg is holding the camera in his left hand? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:33, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

I was so convinced that JackofOz was wrong I took a selfie of myself holding up a sign. Surprisingly to the writing is mirrored, I never knew that! -- Q Chris (talk) 13:21, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

It 100% depends on your camera settings. If you have a good phone like my top-of-the-line Samsung, there is a setting where you can choose whether your selfies are flipped or not. --Viennese Waltz 14:26, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

I never knew that! Why would a mirror image be the default setting if a natural image is what people would naturally want, and the technology is available to deliver it? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 00:08, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

ON Android phones, open the camera app, go to settings (cogwheel or three dots), then find the setting called "mirrored photo" or "save picture as previewed", or something like that. Turn that setting off and selfies will save the right way round (the preview will still be mirrored). DuncanHill (talk) 02:19, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

The preview at least is mirrored as people are so used to seeing mirror images of themselves that they tend to fall over, walk into walls, etc, it it's not mirrored. DuncanHill (talk) 02:21, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

My son the TV cameraman and all-round IT whizkid tells me this is only an issue on Android phones. Iphones give unmirrored selfies by default. Still so much to learn ... -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 08:27, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Which is simply because Android, like Microsoft Windows, is an operating system that third-parties put on their own devices, while iDevices are designed entirely by Apple, hardware and software alike. "Android phones" are a mountain of different phones by dozens of different companies, and each company decides what camera program to ship on their phone (if it has a camera), while every iPhone is from Apple and works how Apple decides it should. --47.146.63.87 (talk) 09:32, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Cool. Thanks. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 08:39, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

In Zoom Video Communications video conferences, by default it shows you yourself in mirror image, but doesn't reverse other participants; so if you have a gallery view, and ask everybody to raise their right hands, you will be the odd one out. I found this odd when I realised it: I haven't tried turning it off to see if it is even odder that way. --ColinFine (talk) 19:30, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

On two different screens, that would have to be. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:31, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Please see the keyboard in the background in File:Lueg im SWR1 Studio.jpg the wording is not mirror imaged, which proves that selfies are not a mirror image. Anton 81.131.40.58 (talk) 09:27, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Bingo. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:44, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

I have just opened the photo app on my iphone and it was showing me a mirror image (= my keyboard button "HOME" behind me was reading "ɜMOH") right until I pressed the "take picture" button, and then it stored a normal image in my picture repository, (= reading "HOME"). tiktok selfie videos, however, are mirror images (text in your videos cannot be read unless you are fluent in "mirror reading"). But that is never the case if you use the back camera instead of the front camera.

Other people who work with professional TV editing may have more relevant information, but I never have difficulty reading street signs on TV, so I assume mirror images are never used.--Lgriot (talk) 13:02, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Reversed signage is used on the front of many ambulances for recognition in rear-view mirrors. DroneB (talk) 00:14, 13 December 2019 (UTC)