Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2014 August 26

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August 26

Introducing oneself as "Myself [insert name here]"

I have noticed that in Indian (South Asian) films, people sometimes introduce themselves with the sentence "Myself [insert name here]" rather than more conventional introductions such as "My name is [insert name here]" or "I am [insert name here]." I have never heard anyone use this introduction anywhere outside the Indian subcontinent. Is this a standard way of introducing oneself over there, and is this introduction virtually nonexistent elsewhere in the English-speaking world? 69.120.134.125 (talk) 04:10, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

I've never heard it in the UK, and I believe that most people here would consider it strange or wrong. 86.128.5.177 (talk) 13:52, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Same here in Ontario. If any of the few South Asians I know said it, I'd probably correct them. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:16, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Greenhalgh

How the hell is that pronounced? I used to work in Rochdale and had to get a taxi from the station to the place I was supposed to be, and the only major road on the way was this road. Giving directions from a place I can't pronounce is not a bundle of fun. So, to end my misery, does anyone know? KägeTorä - (^影_虎) (Chin Wag) 08:26, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

An old (now deceased) friend of mine by that name pronounced it "green-halg" if that helps (a as in cat). --TammyMoet (talk) 10:19, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Is there any difference in pronunciationm between surnames and place-names? I guess with both there may also be regional variation. There's a hamlet with this name on the Fylde: Greenhalgh-with-Thistleton. The Doomsday Book records the village as "Greneholf" and, as far as I know, this is (usually) how it is still pronounced almost a thousand years later. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:29, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Yes, the Fylde placename uses the old pronunciation, but the surname is usually "greenhalj", with some variation. Sorry I don't know the Rochdale version (and, as I expect you have discovered, Google isn't helpful). Dbfirs 11:59, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Just to note: there are 13 people listed at the dab page Greenhalgh, but none of them has any IPA pronunciation guide in their articles. Is there a case for adding a guide at the top of the dab page? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:12, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

For the family name, the BBC Pronouncing Dict. for British Names (2nd. ed. 1983) has ˈɡriːn-hælʃ, -hɒlʃ, -hældʒ, -hɔːl.

For the Lancashire place name, it has ˈɡriːn-hælʃ, -hɔːlʃ. (Transcriptions translated into Wiki standard.)

Here's a thread at Wordreference.com where the pronunciation is discussed.--Cam (talk) 14:04, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

I wonder how they got ʃ/dʒ there.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 14:16, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Making a completely unsupported guess, it might have to do with yogh. Word spelled with yogh, pronounced (or shifted to) ʃ/dʒ, and then yogh was replaced with gh without accounting for pronunciation. Though a quick googling says it comes from older /halx/, so maybe spelling came first as gh and then there was an irregular palatalization. Lsfreak (talk) 20:12, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

I understand that this unusual spelling came from Middle English where /x~ɣ/ were spelled ‹gh› (formerly Old English "yogh"). Scots speakers must to retain partly the old pronunciation of the word. But I can hardly remember any other occasion where these /x~ɣ/ became /ʃ~dʒ/ especially in such environment. A pure anomaly (well, frankly, any oddities are normal for English).--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 21:39, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

I think it must be pronounced like "haugh" [1][2].--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 14:13, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Some other dictionaries: [3][4].--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 14:23, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

John C. Wells's Longman Pronunciation Dictionary gives: /ˈɡriːnhælʃ, -hɔːlʃ, -hɒlʃ, -hældʒ, -hɔːl/, of which the first is the one he recommends for ESL learners (the closest he's willing to come to calling a pronunciation "standard"). —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 15:21, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

... all of which just tells us that there is a lot of variation in the pronunciation. There are some well-known Greenhalgh businesses in Rochdale, and at least one of them gives e-mail addresses for the Greenhalgh owners. Perhaps KT should ask them directly, since the road probably has the same pronunciation. Dbfirs 19:54, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

• This discourse reminds of the time when I moved into a certain street named Greenough Circuit, and I heard so many different pronunciations from my neighbours that I put the word out through my newspaper for help in identifying the one true version. Hah! That engendered a lively epistolatory debate, which only increased the number of versions to about 10, all of which were claimed to be the genuine article. Most unhelpful. I have all the details, if anyone is interested. (Yeah, I hoard shit like that.) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:47, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
• I thought this might be one of those lulzy "Featherstonhaugh"-like names with a whole buncha letters for very few sounds. Even though it isn't, I'd suggest the commencement of a campaign to pronounce "Greenhalgh" as "Grennah" ((/ˈgrɛnə/, to rhyme with "tenner") and treating any other pronunciation with the exaggerated understanding and tolerance one grants to those who don't even know what "shibboleth" means, let alone where to purchase a pair in the better department stores. Pete AU aka --Shirt58 (talk) 05:47, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Shirt58 -- Daniel Jones' 1937 pronouncing dictionary offers [ɡriːnhɔː] as a third pronunciation (behind [ɡriːnhældʒ] and [ɡriːnhælʃ]), so that gets you part of the way there. However, this appears to be based on assimilating the pronunciation of "Greenhalgh" to that of "Greenhaulgh" (which is given [ɡriːnhɔː] as its only pronunciation)... AnonMoos (talk) 12:26, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

I was at university with a girl called Greenhalgh. We used to pronounce it "Greenhouse". Can't remember how she pronounced it. DuncanHill (talk) 08:54, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Greenhalgh family I am aware of use "Greenhalsh". MilborneOne (talk) 08:20, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

A TV show just said "a satellite will fly over our whiskey". From context I guess whiskey means location. Googling for "whiskey location" and "whiskey location military" I find nothing relevant, and more shockingly, Whisky (disambiguation) offers no help. What gives? The best I can guess is Whiskey = W = where. 88.112.50.121 (talk) 20:03, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Possibly, this is a reference to WSCE, as described here. Marco polo (talk) 20:19, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

See NATO phonetic alphabet etc. (though the word "phonetic" is a complete misnomer here)... AnonMoos (talk) 06:21, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

And it's not really NATO at all (as the article admits). It's really the International Civil Aviation Organization Alphabet. NATO won't get to keep it. Not for all the Tango in China. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:21, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Where does it explain in that article specifically what "Whiskey" could mean in this context? 86.128.5.177 (talk) 13:48, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Maybe try being less demanding. The reference desk is a free service provided by volunteers. 183.222.252.219 (talk) 14:01, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Maybe try to stop making ridiculous comments. Supposing that a response to a question will try to answer the question is not being "demanding", it is normal common sense. 86.128.5.177 (talk) 17:13, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

My understanding is that, for TV purposes (and not necessarily real navies), calls like "Head to point Bravo!" don't really mean any specific location in the real world, the understanding is that the characters have all been using the same map, with labeled points on it. So, I might label a point 'tango' for "target", and 'alpha' for my starting point, 'whiskey' for a western location, etc. It's just a way to make "go to this point, one of the several that we've previously agreed upon naming conventions for" sound cool. "Whiskey" appears a few other places in this list of military slang [[5]], but I don't think those uses apply directly here. SemanticMantis (talk) 14:20, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Also doesn't appear at Multiservice tactical brevity code, (although Champagne does!) Martinevans123 (talk) 15:20, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

• WTF? μηδείς (talk) 17:43, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Yes. SemanticMantis (talk) 21:21, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

I just thunk up a theory: whiskey = w = west. There is some extremely weak evidence on the Internet that "whiskey bravo" is police slang for "west bound". The heroes of the show were approaching the US east coast on a ship. The satellite would have been imaging land, therefore necessarily west of the ship. "Fly over whiskey" = "fly west of us". 88.112.50.121 (talk) 23:41, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

You could try posting the question on the IMDb page for the show. You're guaranteed plenty of inane responses, but you might get lucky. And you might have to keep going back to check for some time, as there's no watchlist equivalent there. Some people will stop by, some of them will look at the show's message board, some of them will reply to messages. ‑‑Mandruss (talk) 00:01, 28 August 2014 (UTC)