Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2015 August 19

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August 19

Do Muslims focus on advertising or proselytizing in Muslim-majority countries?

I know Christians certainly do. If it's not proselytizing, then it's advertising on flyers, telling people about so-and-so church. I know Islam spreads by conversions, births, and marriages, but do Muslims advertise their religion on flyers? Christians sometimes even proselytize each other! Do different Muslim sects proselytize each other too? 71.79.234.132 (talk) 03:05, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

In many countries there are special Islamic TV channels and radio stations. Don't forget about the internet. --Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 06:40, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Short answer, yes, sometimes. See Islamic missionary activity and Dawah. Adam Bishop (talk) 09:53, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

And love bombing Love Jihad, fake love to get Hindu girls (say) converted to Islam. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:13, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

I don't suppose you have a reliable source for that? AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:38, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

My apologies, the almost identical broader term love bombing threw me off. I would've never guessed it'd be called a name with the unflattering connotations of Love Jihad. Some Muslims deny an organized campaign but there's 1 billion people in India so it must've happened before. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 21:36, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

"... the me off"? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:54, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

"threw me off". Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 22:07, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

It sounds like the OP is interested in activites used resonably regularly, not just random activities a small number of people may have done. After all, anyone can come up with some random activity, like getting super fit in a gym and then approaching people who are clearly struggling with weight issues and telling them god really helped them to get so fit. It's not clear how this helps the OP. And yes, Love Jihad basically is a such a random activity because our article suggests it's not just Muslims who deny it's any sort of campaign, but pretty much anyone who's actually looked at the evidence.

(Of course inter-faith marriages do happen. Given that many intepretations of Islam have a strong discouragement against apostasy and are also somewhat patriarchal nature including the allowance for certain interfaith marriages where the man is Muslim but the female is not, but the general disallowance for interfaith marriages where the man is non-Muslim and the female is Muslim. And also the fairly patriarchal nature of much of India and the history of arranged marriages, it may very well be that interfaith relationships where the male is Muslim and the female is not are more common then the reverse, whether or not the eventually lead to conversion. But that doesn't go any way to proving any sort of organised campaign or tactic.)

P.S. India isn't a Muslim majority country.

Nil Einne (talk) 04:17, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Pakistan is. And is in the article. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 04:57, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

"Love Jihad" is the sort of the equivalent of Mexicans coming to steal your jobs in the US. India also has right-wing nationalist reactionary bullshitters, but they are Hindu fundamentalists instead of Christians. Adam Bishop (talk) 12:14, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

If it's like that then then it must be a non-issue. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 13:13, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Coins with hole

Why don't they dominate all around the world? I think they have many advantages over traditional coins:

• less weight;
• less cost of production (less metal needed);
• much useful and handy: you can carry them either simply on a rope or with some device like a special ring or pin, anyway you can put them into the pocket after that if you want, and they are much less likely to be scattered and lost;
• also different shapes of the holes could be used to differentiate the values, for example, round holes for 1¤, 10¤, 100¤, square holes for 5¤, 50¤, 500¤, and even triangle holes for, say, 25¤ or 15¤;
• more difficult to counterfeit.

They might require a little more technical production line (you need to create a hole), but is it more troublesome than making washers? There have been such coins (1, 2) throughout the history (particularly in China), but today it looks like only two Japanese yen holed coins (¥5 and ¥50) and the Phillipine 5 centimo coin remain.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 06:34, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

See experience of Micronesians with Rai stones (please lend a hand, right):

• more weight
• more cost of production
• less useful and handy

Granted, more difficult to counterfeit -- Paulscrawl (talk) 09:06, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

What's the purpose of your not-so-funny-as-you-think comment? Trolling?--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 21:52, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

C'mon, Lüboslóv, relax! I found it pretty funny and witty, because it alludes to the historic origin of coins with the value determined by mass. That also gives it a legitimate purpose: It exposes an unspoken assumption in your OP: If the diameter of the coin remains constant. It may make more sense to assume that the mass of metal remains the same, in which case the cost would go up, and either the diameter or the thickness would increase. — Sebastian 22:46, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

OK. But have the holed coins really bigger diameter/weight than the traditional ones? The contemporary Japanese ¥5 and ¥50 coins are 22 mm/3.75 g and 21 mm/4 g, while ¥10 and ¥100 are 23.5 mm/4.5 g and 22.6 mm/4.8 g.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 23:39, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Well, geometrically, they have less volume/(diameter*thickness), so if they use the same metal or alloy, they must weigh a bit less. But that isn't that much; if the hole is 1/5 the diameter, its volume change will be 1/25, which, I presume, is in the order of magnitude of thickness variations depending on what pattern is minted. — Sebastian 01:22, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

I see your points but coin counterfeiting (of circulating coins) isn't done near as much as counterfeiting of paper money. After all, the profit margin on minting coins is very low, therefore you'd have to make quite a few of them... and then find some way to launder them. One great disadvantage of putting a hole in a coin is that it limits the design that you can put on the coin. No longer would you be able to have a large profile of someone's head. And that is something that every country, to my knowledge, has done. It's a very well worn tradition. Dismas|^(talk) 09:56, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Counterfeiting was my last and least important point. I wanted to say that I don't think that modern circulating coins are massively counterfeited, but then deleted. Anyway, I personally do not care who or what would be on everyday used coins, the denomination (1¤, 10¤ etc.) and the issue information (the year, the name of the bank) are more than enough for me and, I believe, for everybody. Who wants funny design, that buys collection coins. My main concern was the usefulness in everyday usage. The state may think about money saving during the production of money (pun) also.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 22:05, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

"No longer would you be able to have a large profile of someone's head. And that is something that every country, to my knowledge, has done." -- Coins of the Republic of Ireland. jnestorius^(talk) 22:56, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

• Except when the profile is of someone who was assassinated. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:35, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Unless you are using precious-metal coins, I'm sceptical that the savings from having a hole would outweigh the cost of making the hole (machinary to punch the hole, and then collecting and recycling the material). Iapetus (talk) 11:05, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Except precious metal coins are worth more in "melt weight" value than in face value, in the modern economy. That is, it makes little sense to counterfeit a modern American gold eagle coin, with a face value of $50, when the gold itself is worth much more than that. A 1 ounce lump of gold is worth over $1000. --Jayron32 17:54, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

And of course (as I should have realised), in a traditional-style commodity-money currency, the value of a coin depends on the amount of precious metal in it. Iapetus (talk) 10:49, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Funny thing, from the mintage table from the article I've just calculated that there should be nearly 650 metric tons of gold in circulation (or rather carefully stored in collections).--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 22:19, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Governments don't save money by putting holes in coins, they debase the currency. Gold coins turned to paper, the silver in silver coins dropped to 50% in 1920 and zero in 1947. Then a few years ago a coin came into contact with a magnet and after a little investigation I found that they are now made of copper - or cupro - nickel plated steel.

Holes don't stop counterfeiting. Even the little homily round the rim of pound coins doesn't stop it. Each one can be fabricated for fifty pence. That's why the proportion of fakes rose to one in seven and why the denomination is going to become dodecagonal soon. There's no problem with the two pound coin because the fakers can't reproduce the cupro - nickel plug which is in the middle of it. 86.138.233.41 (talk) 13:01, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Social situations

Why do social studies experts claim that it's better for people to say something than nothing at all as long as it's not controversial/offensive etc, even if it doesn't receive the best response? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.248.101.73 (talk) 11:55, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Which social studies experts say such a thing?DOR (HK) (talk) 13:56, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Please give us a reference. I find banal small talk particularly offensive. If you say nothing at all people may think you are socially inept, so why would you open your mouth and prove them right? 196.213.35.146 (talk) 14:25, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

As I recall, Lincoln said it more eloquently. And keep in mind that "small talk" is considered an "ice-breaker", and those who can do it have a decided social advantage. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:19, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Well it's still dumb when an astoundingly unattractive, large, conventional hag is enjoying sharing her extremely mundane job & life that she likes with the cashier and you wish you didn't know an adult could have such simple and boring thoughts. For example. If she's retirement age and still finds 90°F in August scintillating real interesting (85°F is July avg) then imagine her small talk when it's 100! Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 01:28, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Just imagine what she might say about you. Beauty is only skin deep. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:04, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

See how dumb I am? I get my idea of what scintillating means from that ad with the ex-pets.com hand puppet and it's completely wrong. Please replace with "really interesting" or something.

In sorry but at my age I can't be attracted to a lady that age. At least if she's 40 she's usually OK or nice to look at but if the enthusiastic talker with the full cart is very old or male I might have no face or body to look at just to pass the time while I listen to the most boring life in the world. (If you're wondering: the tabloid faces usually don't interest me (except Jennifer Aniston). I don't look at my phone cause it's home charging.) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 03:05, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Philome Obin

Hi, can you tell me more about Philome Obin? He is a famous painter from Haiti, and also my long-lost grandfather. This is his grandson, Philip Robert Obin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.52.105.40 (talk) 19:37, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

See Philomé Obin for our article. Tevildo (talk) 21:03, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Who is this watercolor Artist Rathbun?

Dear sirs I have searched for years to find out who the artist was who painted the painting in the attached photos. My father purchased this painting over 50 years ago for $5 in a Chicago thrift shop. In 2011 I had the Atlanta Art Conservancy clean and seal the painting as is done for museum pieces with museum quality glass. It cost over $600 and when I went to pick it up they offered to buy the painting though no offer was discussing, and I immediately declined

In the nineties I googled a Rathbun who did water color illustration in the mid to late 1880's, but since then I have been unable relocate that connection. My father once took the painting to the Indianapolis Museum of Art, but they were unable to shed any light on the origin of the painting On the back of the painting is what appears to be a date written in large letters which is 1669. N either myself or the folks at the conservancy believe it is the date of this painting, although it could be reference to subject matter. The frame was so aged it was black.

So now, I turn to the great Oz of our time AKA Wikipedia and ask that the members of Wikipedia perform the impossible and identify this unidentifiable artist whom painted this beautiful piece. Yes this is a challenge no less. I hope this is the right venue for this request, but if not please forward to right group.

can provide pictures upon request, but apparently not on this format. am not having success creating a file either. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Six Gun South (talk • contribs) 23:09, 19 August 2015‎

You have provide no link to any image, and without seeing the painting, it is unlikely we can help. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:33, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Hi Six Gun South, you could upload the image(s) to an image-hosting website such as photobucket or imgur. Then you can provide a link here. People here have had quite good luck with these kinds of requests if they can see the picture. 184.147.128.46 (talk) 12:49, 20 August 2015 (UTC)